SWAPA beware of hubris
08-15-2009 | 12:57 PM
#42
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Absent the few flamers that continue on this board, if you want to look a bit deeper at why most of the SWA pilots did not support the integration of F9 pilots here, here is a little insight.;....
Many pilots at SWA are getting their fill of stagnant and backwards movement right now. Many are displaced as SWA is moving flying from east to west. Many FO's are understandably upset that what was, until a year or so ago, a 7 year upgrade, now is near 14++ years. Not exactly what they signed up for....
So, is it arrogance? Is it personal to F9? I would say no. I see a bunch of guys, myself included, who don't really need or want to see someone moving into the list in front of them right now.....would you? I am already commuting from my old base, where I live, to my new one, where I don't want to be. Personally, we all do what is best for us, and giving up seniority on top of pay and base loss was not on the menu. It had nothing to do with assumed superiority to F9 people.
While some SWA guys who flame on this board still consider SWA the holy grail, I would observe from watching from the inside, that it is a nice place to work, but it is still just a job. It would have been great to have F9 guys here, but it was not the right fit at the right time.
As far as hubris is concerned, I think that 90% of the posters on this board could take a note on that condition. Aren't we all just geniouses in our own world.......
Many pilots at SWA are getting their fill of stagnant and backwards movement right now. Many are displaced as SWA is moving flying from east to west. Many FO's are understandably upset that what was, until a year or so ago, a 7 year upgrade, now is near 14++ years. Not exactly what they signed up for....
So, is it arrogance? Is it personal to F9? I would say no. I see a bunch of guys, myself included, who don't really need or want to see someone moving into the list in front of them right now.....would you? I am already commuting from my old base, where I live, to my new one, where I don't want to be. Personally, we all do what is best for us, and giving up seniority on top of pay and base loss was not on the menu. It had nothing to do with assumed superiority to F9 people.
While some SWA guys who flame on this board still consider SWA the holy grail, I would observe from watching from the inside, that it is a nice place to work, but it is still just a job. It would have been great to have F9 guys here, but it was not the right fit at the right time.
As far as hubris is concerned, I think that 90% of the posters on this board could take a note on that condition. Aren't we all just geniouses in our own world.......
The funny part is that when you defend your own turf everyone takes offense. If Delta bought Frontier do you think those guys would have allowed F9 guys to go in front of them? Hypocritical and comical to say the least.
08-15-2009 | 01:03 PM
#43
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
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Absent the few flamers that continue on this board, if you want to look a bit deeper at why most of the SWA pilots did not support the integration of F9 pilots here, here is a little insight.;....
Many pilots at SWA are getting their fill of stagnant and backwards movement right now. Many are displaced as SWA is moving flying from east to west. Many FO's are understandably upset that what was, until a year or so ago, a 7 year upgrade, now is near 14++ years. Not exactly what they signed up for....
So, is it arrogance? Is it personal to F9? I would say no. I see a bunch of guys, myself included, who don't really need or want to see someone moving into the list in front of them right now.....would you? I am already commuting from my old base, where I live, to my new one, where I don't want to be. Personally, we all do what is best for us, and giving up seniority on top of pay and base loss was not on the menu. It had nothing to do with assumed superiority to F9 people.
While some SWA guys who flame on this board still consider SWA the holy grail, I would observe from watching from the inside, that it is a nice place to work, but it is still just a job. It would have been great to have F9 guys here, but it was not the right fit at the right time.
As far as hubris is concerned, I think that 90% of the posters on this board could take a note on that condition. Aren't we all just geniouses in our own world.......
Many pilots at SWA are getting their fill of stagnant and backwards movement right now. Many are displaced as SWA is moving flying from east to west. Many FO's are understandably upset that what was, until a year or so ago, a 7 year upgrade, now is near 14++ years. Not exactly what they signed up for....
So, is it arrogance? Is it personal to F9? I would say no. I see a bunch of guys, myself included, who don't really need or want to see someone moving into the list in front of them right now.....would you? I am already commuting from my old base, where I live, to my new one, where I don't want to be. Personally, we all do what is best for us, and giving up seniority on top of pay and base loss was not on the menu. It had nothing to do with assumed superiority to F9 people.
While some SWA guys who flame on this board still consider SWA the holy grail, I would observe from watching from the inside, that it is a nice place to work, but it is still just a job. It would have been great to have F9 guys here, but it was not the right fit at the right time.
As far as hubris is concerned, I think that 90% of the posters on this board could take a note on that condition. Aren't we all just geniouses in our own world.......
08-15-2009 | 01:14 PM
#45
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From: MD CA
You top out at 16.5K with your 401K. And your lame stock thats gone from 15 to to 9 a share. Nice--
08-15-2009 | 01:15 PM
#46
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You have a point that Southwest will have to adapt. I think their position is not as strong as the common analyst might suggest. I also think some of their more... enthusiastic posters will find it difficult to come to terms with certain unavoidable realities. All businesses eventually reach, then pass, their apex. Southwest doesn't offer the best service, or the best prices, and they're done finding easy growth opportunities. They still have a highly motivated employee group, and relatively higher compensation. That usually lasts for some indefinite period, this feeling you've escaped gravity. Then something changes, and the inertia swings, imperceptibly at first, towards the erath, and towards the bottom.
My guess is that this perhaps has already occured. Some have that funny feeling in the pit of their stomach, and some of them will react by being more arrogant, trapped in denial, will others will be a little more cautious, further along on the path to acceptance.
...
WRT the proposed deal, however, I don't see that SWAPA did anything wrong. Combine their (current) advantage, and the precarious position at F9, and it's obvious to me they didn't have to offer anything beyond a staple. Even if the company obviously had a lot to gain taking out F9. I don't see why the pilots should facilitate it at their expense.
I don't find their position arrogant at all, and certainly not "unbelievable". The tone of some anonymous posters, now, that is a different story. But the staple offer? I see no problem with it. F9 did, and they tried option "A". It was entirely up to them.
The same will occur if we bring Compass into the fold, and I certainly don't expect we could, or would, offer anything beyond a staple.
08-15-2009 | 01:19 PM
#47
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There's only 1 thing that can be done. 10, 15, 20 years from now when southwest is bought the acquiring pilots need to stand by a staple job.
It's not personal. It's just looking out for yourself at the expense of everyone around you. It's what pilots do best.
It's not personal. It's just looking out for yourself at the expense of everyone around you. It's what pilots do best.
08-15-2009 | 01:20 PM
#48
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From: MD CA
What I was getting at, isn't FDX or UPS in the "industry"? And SWA is making $. So a retirement plan would be number one on my list of contract improvements. A little B plan would be very awesome in the long run. Even at a low percentage, say 6%.
08-15-2009 | 01:32 PM
#49
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Dude, you have anger issues. Go work at UPS then and dont buy SWA stock, I dont know what to tell you.
08-15-2009 | 02:12 PM
#50
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From: I am the Stig
If you haven't noticed, this industry in cyclical. Who's on top today could very easily be sucking hind tittie tomorrow.
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