I'd also be willing to bet if you did it with stage length adjusted non-fuel CASM the numbers would be very different. That would show the costs of the core business, not the success that SWA had for a period of time at the futures table.

As your interested, you might have fun looking at Form 41 data for like cost comparisons. I think you'd find the differences to the numbers you've published surprising when comparing say Delta domestic mainline to SWA. No question system costs at Delta are higher, but that's generally driven by the differences in the systems. If you were to compare similar types of flying (say DAL mainline versus SWA at SLC), SWA no longer shows a cost advantage.

Please do not take this as bashing SWA. It's an analytical discussion of how far the costs have fallen at some mainline carriers (much on the backs of labor and investors), and makes for a much different landscape for all of us to operate in. It also makes it that much more difficult to restore our profession to compensation levels we once attained.

 

What a refreshing post. Shows a little insight and thought instead of being representative of the cattle sucking down the Koolaid. I've always heard what a nice place SWA is to work - wish it could have worked out to be a win/win situation. Good luck to you SWA guys - I really think we all need it.

 

It is pretty clear why the vocal minority SWA bunch is a little perturbed the deal didn't work, they all just lost a potential relative seniority bump.
That being said, don't kid yourselves into thinking that a few vocal SWA pilots have a lock on this "arrogant" attitude in this industry, take a trip into the cargo boards and you will find the same vocal minority at the brown and purple flavor that share the "oh, you didn't get hired?" mentality.
Good luck to us all in these tough times.
WG

 

OK.. I'll give you that one.. but it by no means that SWA pilots have been at or near the top of anything over that period of time... They never set the bar on anything except average taxi speed.

 

Taxi speed and furlough percentages.

 

There WILL be a merger of the lists at Frontier and Republic. Bedford has asked the union multiple times (even going so far as to say he would walk away from the deal or sell F9) for scope relief. If ANY current CEO knows about scope clauses with teeth, it's Bedford. He's been beat twice by the scope language in the current Republic contract.

Republic cannot own another airline and keep it independent.

 

He's also used scope protection to beat pilots out of wages.

True, under the current CBA at RAH. Depending on what gets offered up in a new CBA, who knows what will happen.

NO, I'm not saying the RAH group will cave on scope. But BB is good at playing this game.

 

Didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest, just trying to give a little perspective from someone who has seen the highs and seen the lows.

To answer a few questions, I am not a disgruntled SWA reject. When I was hired at Delta, I didn't even consider Southwest. It just wasn't competitive at the time. See, times change.

If Delta had won the bidding for Frontier, they would have been integrated in a status and category approach like every other integration at Delta. There probably would have been some adjustment because they didn't bring in wide body flying. There would not have been a staple.

A good example is the Delta/Pan Am integration. The Pan Am pilots came to Delta with NO PROTECTION at all. Completely naked, just like TWA was with AMR. ALPA had no fragmentation policy at that time and the Pan Am contract did not cover this transaction. In fact, the Pan Am pilots had to interview individually with Delta and get accepted to be hired. Delta could have easily tried to make the phony case that the Pan Am pilots were lucky to come with Delta (at that time we had the highest compensation) with a staple job. (any of this sound familiar). Instead we integrated them in from the top to the bottom of the list.

Finally, if you look at system CASM, it does not give the whole story. For instance Delta operates into Lagos, Nigeria with all of the security costs associated with that unstable country. That adds to our total CASM. However, we also charge $15,000 for a round trip business class ticket, the high costs are justified.

What you need to look at is the incremental net revenue that each carrier can generate, per seat mile, on identical routes (opportunity revenue - opportunity costs). For instance if SWA wanted to fly from ATL to SAV, how much net revenue would a Delta MD-88 make in relation to a Southwest 737. Today, Delta is quite competitive with Southwest. The days of Southwest just waltzing into a market and shoving everyone out are gone. They are going to have to compete tooth and nail for each market. (See Denver, CO if you need an example)

I will say it again, Southwest is a well run company and they are not "in trouble". Yet. They are going to have to adapt and the days of them ruling the roost are over. SWAPA's offer of a staple job is a joke (just like the FAPA offer of relative seniority) and the Southwest pilots better start adjusting their sights on a different target. Just because you did it to Morris and then body slammed ATA, doesn't mean you can expect that in the future. I think it telling that SWAPA was quite concerned about binding arbitration because they had to have known that they would never get a staple from a decent arbitrator.

I think that SWA and SWAPA missed a big opportunity to help themselves in this deal. Part (and I emphasize part) of the problem was SWAPA's unrealistic expectations in the seniority integration. They would probably do themselves a big favor if they took a reality check and got their sights aimed at something more reasonable in the future.

 

I think the hornets have gone back to the nest.

 

I appreciate the contribution of your perspective.

Were Delta and Pan Am both ALPA? If so, we're talking apples and oranges.

With two separate bargaining units each union has to start at the extreme in order to keep their members from accusing them of failing to try to represent their best interests. But over time, an accord can be reached. How much time? Depends ... could be months, but certainly more than three days!

The continuous accusations of SWA arrogance for demanding a staple job ... and the similar arrogance of FAPA for their also completely unrealistic demands ... lingers solely because there was never the opportunity to reach a negotiated agreement. It was left hanging with the two sides still far apart creating the illusion that there would never have been an agreement.

So, from my perspective, the biggest lesson learned here is that negotiating in public is a bad thing ....