de727ups

"My main issue is that I believe that most who enter the profession have the same overall needs and expectation as I do.:

No, I don't agree. You didn't find being a 100K a year regional Capt as worthy. I think that most who enter the profession would say that if that is the average end result, with the possibility of going farther, that making 100K working 4 on, 3 off, and flying, is worthy. I appreciate your comments that people should be garbage men, plumbers, teachers, or work for the post office, but I reject your assertion that MOST people would find a 100K a year Horizon Capt job as not worth sticking with the career for. I just don't agree....

Bucking Bar

Sky,

Make your own decisions. For me, I sure got tired of a two hour drive each way to the office, then eight to sixteen hours at work. A meal, bed, start at 05:30 the next day, stay out late with the co workers Friday, work Saturday, laundry & fix the house Sunday, then repeat. I made a lot of money and did not have time to enjoy it. I talked my employer into leasing an airplane for me & that was the only part of the job I really relaxed in and enjoyed.

Making more than $100K is pretty tough in the Corporate world. Of course it can be done, but usually a few years of service and some good luck with promotional opportunities is needed. Unlike the seniority list, it is hard to be assured that your Company will not acquire, or be acquired, or worse re-organize you, right out of the promotion you worked a decade for.

I LOVE that it is required that I get 8 hours of rest every day. In reality there are few days where there is not time for a good run, a meal with an interesting crew member, a couple of nice flights which is followed by three or four days with my family.

Different strokes for different folks. I gave up a really good gig for a $18K a year job with a regional. In a few years it was a $70K a year job and again it was necessary to take a step backwards to fly for a major. But looking back on it, the decision to pursue this avocation was a good one.

flaps 9

So true!!!

When anyone asks for my advice the subject I tell them the same thing a UAL pilot told me years ago. Find the cheapest, slowest airplane around. You're trying to build time. Whether it's a new Piper with GPS, glass, and autopilot or a 1965 C-150 you're still logging single engine piston time.

I'm not sure what flight training costs are these days but no way should anyone be paying anything close to 150K for training.

dbtownley

I totally agree brother, that's why I left 121. I am just glad that it was sooner than later. Good luck with your decision.

nigelcobalt

I enjoy 121. Wouldn't want to do much else. I wish that experience counted for something. If you get furloughed, it would be nice if you could move to company b, and pick up where you left off (national seniority list).

I think the barrier to enter 121 is getting higher, which is a good thing. I think the way to do flight training is to buy a 152. The local flight school wants $110 for a trainer (plus $35 for a cfi), and the seminole is $240 (plus $40 for a cfi). Do the math on that. Ridiculous if you ask me.

SkyHigh

I like how you throw 100K around as if that is an actual amount that I could have earned at Horizon Air by now. By my math it is 72K. I am still in contact with people from my new hire class and they do not make 100K either. In addition I was gone more than most pilots and worked harder because of the short leg lengths in the dash. My time away from base was punishing. More than twice as much as when I flew for National Airlines. From what I hear it is five on and three off.

Another thing for you to consider is that during my time there we were on pre-contract wages. My income potential was considerably less than what they have now. Had I known that a better contract was on its way perhaps I would have made my choices differently. At the time however it was a sweatshop that was slow to upgrade and offered humiliating wages. I needed to make a living to support a family on not $492 every two weeks.

72K in itself is not all that bad but when you consider the 20 years of poverty, pain and suffering it took for me to get there then it stinks on ice. Had I known that this was a realistic career destination then I definitely would have skipped the four years of college and flight training, chosen to miss out on all my years of living in a bug infested hut in Alaska and gotten a job as a mailman straight away and been close to retirement by now.

I love to fly just as anyone else here but I needed to make a living and have the ability for a life. I made sacrifices so that I could earn a better life for my family and I. It is not worth it to me to have to live in the city, earn garbage man wages and then be gone more than half the time. If you were in my shoes then perhaps you would see it differently.

I am afflicted by the nagging thought that I can do better.

Skyhigh

Lighteningspeed

It's difficult to predict what will happen in the Part 121 flying world in the next year or two, let alone in 10 years because there are too many variables that changes unpredictably.

However, I do not see your number (1) scenario happening. I think the number of regionals will go down in numbers but I do not see regionals going back to flying all turboprops. Most major airlines that outsources its domestic flying is reducing the number of turboprops flying at regionals. People living in small towns that are currently being served by RJs and turboprops like Saabs will have to drive to bigger cities to catch their flights.

Even with large retirements predicted starting 2012, it is more likely majors will manage with less pilots. DAL is saying even with the new duty and rest requirement that is being discussed, it will be a washout or at best DAL may need 100 more pilots.

I think a more likely scenario is that majors will concentrate on international flying and most domestic flying will be delegated to regionals. For some it would done by wholly owned regionals. For others, like UAL, it will be done by any contract regionals UAL chooses. As for international flying, it looks like it will be taken over by joint alliance concepts and eventually some foreign carriers may wind up merging with US carriers and with each other. I think it's already in the works. BA will be merging with the Spanish carrier, and DAL may wind up sharing most international flying along with its profits and expenses with KLM and Air France, making them virtually indistinguishable in their operations.

Is it worth staying in this business? Like others have pointed out, it depends on whether flying is your passion or not. I have always loved flying so I will stay put either 121 or 135 flying. But it also means I am willing to take the risk when there are opportunities for me to move forward. For this reason, I cannot fault SkyHigh for leaving Horizon for a start up LCC. I probably would have done the same thing. After all why stay at Horizon for 10 years when you have a chance to fly B757s for a higher pay. Who can gurantee anything in this business.

The difference between SkyHigh and I, though, is I would not have given up trying to get another flying job, even if it means working in an office for several years. I would have kept on trying. But then again, I am not married with kids like SkyHigh. Given his circumstances, who can blame him for dropping out? I do value SkyHigh's input because he presents the other side of the coin and what can happen to you if run out of luck in this extremely unstable aviation business. I know plenty of examples where superbly talented pilots wind up being unemployed.

Bucking Bar

Yep. Anything I spent on learning flying was made back and then some by cleaning, waxing, fixing and selling the old slow airplanes I trained in.

Spending $150,000 and chasing girls around the beach would have been fun, but isn't necessary.

Bucking Bar

Piper Tri Pacer or Colt, $15,000 and 6 Gallons Per Hour. Worth as much or more when you sell it as when you buy it.

Piper Twin Commanche ~ $50,000 and 12 to 14 GPH. You can find partnerships on Comanches and the remaining Apaches out there.

No one wants to do it that way any more. They'd rather sit in a box bolted to the floor with a CRJ'ish cockpit and pay $5,000 for a week of playing Flight Sim X with some other similarly inclined individual under the supervision of a bored out of his mind flight instructor who endues the box in the hope a real multi engine student will show up.

Wonder what one of these kids would do if instead of the particleboard procedures trainer you took them out of an hour of time in a Citabria, gave them a few spins followed by some stops at grass strips and some light acro? Much more educational than sitting there reading "3 down and green, flaps 40, landing check complete."

80ktsClamp

So true, so true, so true...