Originally Posted by Hot Rod Wannabe

Just a question, how many hours do you think the avg, F-16 pilot has before he graduates from flight school? Do you know what the screening process is for fighter school is today for USAF?
CO ANG F-16 Squadron just had a young pilot fly his 200th hour as PIC in his F-16 and 100th hour in an F-16. So you and your 200 hour wonder wings is bologna just like your last posting. Get over it!

Originally Posted by keenster

SWA and AT do not have regionals therefore they do not have the problems tied to them that other mainline carriers do.

Originally Posted by jonnyjetprop

Why don't you get all the jet flying at mainline?

Because the airlines, the pilot unions and the pilot's flying at the mainline don't really want it. The guy who said that the regionals is the new B scale is right on. Why would a guy flying at the mainline invest any bargaining capital in bring back the smaller jets? He has a job. The only reason we are talking about this is because the "seniority treadmill" has stopped (because of the economy and age 65). ALPA gets paid on both ends, so why fight it. In two or three years, it will fade into the background.

Originally Posted by jonnyjetprop

Do RJ's hurt Major airlines?

No, they made the modern hub and spoke airline. Pre deregulation flying MD-80's to Bakersfield days are far behind us. The only successful airline models are Southwest point to point (and getting less point to point everyday) and the hub and spoke. This is what the market demanded and that is what the flying public got.

Why don't you get all the jet flying at mainline?

Because the airlines, the pilot unions and the pilot's flying at the mainline don't really want it. The guy who said that the regionals is the new B scale is right on. Why would a guy flying at the mainline invest any bargaining capital in bring back the smaller jets? He has a job. The only reason we are talking about this is because the "seniority treadmill" has stopped (because of the economy and age 65). ALPA gets paid on both ends, so why fight it. In two or three years, it will fade into the background.

Refuse to hire RJ pilots?

Not to sound like a broken record, but the unions don't hire pilots. Why would an airline not hire someone who is doing the same job for years and thousands of hours? Who else? The military guys already go to the front of the line and there are fewer every day. Do you want a UAV pilot instead of a RJ pilot. Remember that all of the RJ pilots are union paying members. If I were flying at a regional and ALPA said don't hire me, how long will ALPA be at my regional? Even if I got on, would I all of sudden become the rah rah union guy knowing that you tried to stick it to me?

Start hiring turboprop guys and FAR 135?

Let's see, I could choose someone who is doing the very same job for me or one of my competitors or I could go out on a limb and hire an "unknown quantity". Maybe the guy's great, maybe not. Will I invest the money to find out? No.

Minimum time requirements?

Sounds good on paper. First, the only reason why total times were low was because we ran low on pilots. That won't be a problem for awhile, until the numbers drop. I believe in the almighty buck and those universities need to draw in people, so I think there will always be that exception to the rule. It may not be Gulfstream, but it may be Purdue or UND. Worse case, there will be someone with a C-172 or PA28 running 1000 hr time builder specials.

Originally Posted by CaptainTeezy

Maybe I didnt specify....but are you telling me 200 hour military pilots are equal to 200 hour fight pilots??? I am pretty sure that is not accurate. I was speaking specifically about civillian pilots. Building a foundation on zero to hero, going straight to an airline, and becoming a captain after a year or two builds a very weak foundation. In fact that resume matches the captain of Colgan 3407.

Originally Posted by satchip

kinda late to this thread and if it's already been said, forgive me. RJs don't hurt the majors, subcontracting RJs hurt the mainline. It may be good on a balance sheet but the intangibles aren't counted by accountants.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

If he is he is correct and dead wrong.

Stick and Rudder wise, both have complete basic flight school. The military guy can think geometrically, where the civvie generally has no close. There you go. Military guys are better, yeah! Lets stop that crud.


What they both lack the the ability and experience to operate in the 121 world. The Regional guys that come to mainline work in the system every day, understand RNAV RNP, CATI II III etc. They know the radios and FMC stuff. There are some military guys that have never seen it. It takes some spool up for that.

Military guys and gals are better employees. They follow orders, the are pro company and skeptical of unions when they are hired. Regional guys know the game and are not going to be sold on anything.

In the end if you make it to a major your flying abilities match. We are both rough around the edges on some level. Really who cares?

Some of the biggest pro scope restoration pilots are former military guys.

Originally Posted by satchip

I have to take exception to a couple of things here, ACL. RNAV RNP is taught in pilot training. Any multi place airplane in the USAF now does Cat II and they all have FMC/FMS. Fighter guys, while not as well versed in weather landings, operate in weather using synthetic vision at low level at night in wx at 500Kts. Military guys routinely operate multiple radios on multiple frequencies both encrypted and not.

You're right, we don't know the specifics of ATL or ORD or JFK operations. I've often said the hardest part of learning this job was getting from the gate to the runway at ATL.

What the 500 hour military pilot has over the 500 hour civilian is depth and breadth of experience, command experience and weight of responsibility. Neither of the two are qualified for a Part 121 job however. By the time the two reach a Major interview, they are pretty much equal.