Originally Posted by Phantom Flyer

Of greater concern is the fact that the circus hype created by this incident has not done anything in terms of selling "professionalism" in this industry at a time when we need all the friends we can muster in Washington.

G'Day Mates

Originally Posted by tsquare

Funny how our "professionalism" comes into focus whenever something like this occurs - even when nobody was or realistically could have been hurt - yet whenever it comes to compensating us or treating us (witness the coming oberstar/knucklehead bill concerning CVR monitoring) we are simply overpaid incompetents.

Originally Posted by Phantom Flyer

First of all, after 25+ years in this industry, I have to say that the overwhelming majority of pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, CSR's and air traffic controllers do a very professional job and are a credit to themselves, their company and to the industry as a whole. No question about it. Unfortunately, it only takes an isolated incident, which this was, blown out of proportion by the blood thirsty media, to cast dispersion on a thousand acts of professional conduct.

Originally Posted by Phantom Flyer

As for compensation, all the more reason to show the traveling public the demands that are placed on members of this profession every day and how those demands are met safely and ...here we go again, "professionally".

Originally Posted by Phantom Flyer

As for Congressman Oberstar, I'm surprised his name is attached to the bill. I thought he was smarter than that.

G'Luck Mate...I'm out of this discussion !

Originally Posted by ThrustMonkey

Perhaps next time we see a photo of our President in the Oval Office with his kids in there too, all of the media freaks can make some big deal about how them being in there while the President is conducting official business for the United States is a violation of national security.....its just as assinine.

Originally Posted by Phantom Flyer

Well, it violates a number of rules. What was a non-FAA employee doing in the cab to begin with ? That is an FAA violation, whether he was a relative or not, under the new security regulations. .

Originally Posted by Phantom Flyer

Well, it violates a number of rules. What was a non-FAA employee doing in the cab to begin with ? That is an FAA violation, whether he was a relative or not, under the new security regulations.

Originally Posted by DelDah Capt

I agree with you completely.....if this controller had used just a little common sense, we wouldn't be having this discusssion.

I don't know the exact ATC rules, but since both the FAA and his own union, NATCA have issued statements saying that they condemn his actions and question his professionalism, I'm going to assume that he broke some pretty clear rules and likely knew that he was doing so at the time. My guess is that the problem comes down to two issues, access to a secure facility and access to the radios, but I'll let the investigation run it's course.

I'm also going to assume that he realized that everything his son said on the radios was going to be taped. I also assume he knew that dozens of crewmembers would hear this. Furthermore, it would be witnessed by a number of his coworkers in the tower, all of whom he put in a terrible position. Lastly, anyone who works ATC knows that there are now hundreds if not thousands of amateur scanners in this country listening in on the frequency just waiting to post any errors on LiveATCnet. Everyone keeps asking why this is getting so much attention and the reason is that this guy was silly enough to drop his pants in front of lots of people. You know, we all make mistakes in this business, and I've made some doozies, but they were generally in the heat of battle. This guy apparently preplanned this and willfully carried it out.

The going sentiment in this thread is that nothing bad happend, so what's the big deal? I could go through the entire book of FARs and easily make the case that on a rule by rule basis that you could ignore various FARs and easily complete the flight safely. But if you got into Flying with the notion that you would be a maverick and do your own thing by picking and choosing which rules to follow based on whether you thought they were important or not, then I'm here to tell you that you are in the wrong business. I'll even cop to breaking a few rules myself as I can neither confirm nor deny the odd crossword, but if I do it right in front of a Fed inspector, I'm not going to cry foul when he whacks me for being stupid. This guy broadcast his transgressions for all to hear and on a 1 to 10 Scale of Safety danger its probably a 1....but on a judgment scale where he put himself and his coworkers in a really bad positon, it's right up there. Again, I don't want him fired, but he was the one who made it a 'public' incident, so it's kind of hard to just sweep it under the rug. I hope he just gets a retraining session or whatever wrist slap controllers get,


Lastly, there's a lot of whining about the nanny state and too many rules. I tend to agree but the fact is that many of the rules come about because those in our own ranks abuse the system. While you can no longer walk up and visit an ATC facility since 9/11, with the proper authorization, you could get access for any number of group visits. However, the latest news is that all unofficial visits have now been supended in light of this incident. If you wanted to get your kids Cub scout troop a visit, this event may have sealed the deal. I am a commuter and don't want to see any rules passed limiting my choices. However, we have a few fellow pilots making some silly commuting decisions and next thing you know congress is involved. The fact is that sometimes we are our own worst enemies. Perhaps istead of excusing every misdeed in threads like this we should practice a little more self policing to avoid the nanny state. Maybe if one of his coworkers said...."You know, this isn't a good idea", we wouldn't even be discussing this.

....and now I'll get down off my high and mighty soapbox.

Originally Posted by Phantom Flyer

Well, it violates a number of rules. What was a non-FAA employee doing in the cab to begin with ? That is an FAA violation, whether he was a relative or not, under the new security regulations. Secondly, the fact that a non-qualified person was transmitting instructions regarding aircraft movements is a violation of FAA policy. That's not an opinion,it's a fact.