I know analogies have their limits, but would you feel comfortable if I told you I let my kid in the operating room during your procedure to do something simple?

I believe the only absolutely correct answer to these kind of questions is "it depends." As everybody pointed out, situations such as this when properly supervised it is safe, encourages further learning. However this all depends on the extremely good judgment of the supervisor....

For example, I would never let ANYBODY in a sterile area that wasn't properly instructed and observed closely in proper technique, as a kid could touch something and not tell you and the patient could get an infection. Kids are unpredictable. That being said, I would probably let an interested teenager in the (nonsterile) control room to watch a procedure from afar, and learn what I do.

However, I would argue by letting this kid on the microphone, this guy showed somewhat poor judgment; the kid could probably repeat things but

1. Everything is being recorded, and broadcast all over the internet. Honestly, what do you think would happen?? LiveATC will see a bump in traffic thanks to this.
2. No matter what you think, you have to realize that other pilots might wonder what is going on and be uncomfortable with this. A pilot does not know immediately that the controller is right behind them all the time or know that you are a responsible supervisor.
3. You'd have to really, really watch what the kid says and make sure everything is ok. This demands a great deal of additional concentration.

His "sound judgment" should have predicted national news would happen when laypeople heard the recordings. The average joe doesn't know how dangerous this is in fact, but it sounds extremely dangerous. Now, I fear an over-reaction, and legislation may ruin things for everybody else.

 

Ya know. This blows my mind. What's the big freaking deal? The ATC guy was telling his kid EXACTLY what to say. WHO CARES???!!!

Is this really any different then when I was an RJ CA, & had to babysit 250 hour wonder FO's?


The FAA doesn't have any problems with that. Do people not think there was a supervisor hanging around? Do people not think he was right there to correct anything? As usual, the media blows things way out of proportion.

I bet you if we told them this would lead to cheaper airfares they'd have no problem with it at all.

 

Nobody was ever going to be in danger, I'm sure the kid had a great time, but.... it does show bad judgement just because of how sensitive the public is about aviation. You could probably talk to 10,000 pilots and only a couple blow hards are really gonna think the guy should get fired, most of us are going to think he should get a slap on the wrist. Alternatively, if you talked to 10,000 average people I'd bet you get something like 7,000 of them that say fire the guy. It's just a case of the "don't get caught" if it had stopped with those pilots and a couple chuckles, hey the kid had a good time, he understands what dad does, everybody wins. Unfortunately once anybody takes interest in that, there's LOTS of incriminating evidence of something that just doesn't LOOK good to the general public.

I'm in the let him off with a slap on the wrist crowd and would be happy to write my congressman or whoever telling them.

 

wow... call it like it is!

I'm all for "bring your kid to work week". I don't mind letting the kid sit in front, push buttons, take pictures but not in flight. Just out of respect for the person Iam flying with, I do not want to put the CA in a uncomfortable situation. It's already difficult to fly with a CA who dries his laundry on the dash while in cruise flight.

Lesson learned, let's move on!

 

Yeah, that's kind of what I meant -- part of having good professional judgment is knowing how others will perceive you.

Absolutely true, in reality it does not matter if ATC is in their underwear, as long as they do a good job and are paying attention. However, lapses in professionalism are often emblematic of people paying attention to things they shouldn't (e.g. 3407, 3701), and it is difficult to argue kids in the control tower while on duty do not occupy a bit of brainpower keeping track of what THEY are up to.

Many idealistic persons tend to look at themselves in isolation -- I would be the same doctor in jeans and a polo shirt, and possibly more effective because I'd be more comfortable. However, I'm sitting here in a suit and tie typing this before I go home (no lie) because I am aware that many view it as a surrogate for professionalism. This guy should have known a skittish public would not look kindly upon this event.

 

Me too, Tony. But, isn't about our love for hot Latinas?

 

That captain was a fool.

 

^^ explain?

 

You guys crack me up. How many of you who are saying this is no big deal were carrying pitchforks for the MSP pilots? Either a willful disregard for regulations should be handled harshly or it should be laughed off. Which is it?

Both situations were the result of professionals making errors of judgment and both situations ended the same, no one ever in jeopardy.

The hypocrisy of the FAA is precious here. I'm sure the employees were suspended with pay. They will receive their due process rights and they will get their jobs back. Juxtapose that with the treatment of our two FNW brethren. I'm just sayin' ...

 

While I agree that it's "not that big of a deal" and he was def in control.... he should have known better that:

1. He shouldnt have done it.

and the biggest thing:

2. PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE LISTENING!!!!


I couldn't believe it took it this long to break into the media.. happened a few weeks ago. The drive by media is always looking for a big easy juicy one... NW188 was that, and this is just as good or better since they actually have sound bites.