You are extremely panic stricken.

I take very seriously the fact that a majority of us voted these contracts in. For that we must take the blame. You continue to ignore ALPA's role in this which is: to be the conduit through which almost all information gets to us and our local leaders. The information has been terribly slanted in such a way as to produce only one outcome. You don't like to talk about that, but it is at the heart of why so many pilots want out of ALPA national. We'll see if the votes tally 51%.

I never said we created the conflict. We sold scope. ALPA created the conflict when they fought to be the bargaining agents to all sides...including the guys we sold our flying to.

You're an ALPA loyalist to the end. I understand that. Anything else is viewed by you as quitting, slitting wrists, throwing grenades, anger, fear, group suicide, etc.

Carl

 

Carl, we are ONE Bargaining Agent, with ONE Representational Structure. ALPA is ONE party to our management. As a result of this unity, conflicts are resolved before we come to the table with management.

Nothing prevents mainline from negotiating effective scope. In fact, in unity ALPA has the unique ability to coordinate among the major stakeholders. The problem has never been the mechanics of unity, the problem has been ALPA's unwillingness to embrace its greatest strength.
Correct. Moving out of ALPA harms unity and as such, the DPA is fatally flawed from its inception in my view.

We agree, ALPA is entirely responsible for its woes and it must be reformed. Without reform ALPA will continue down a path to decreasing power and irrelevance. The results of this diminished power will be diminished returns for ALPA members and increasing frustration. The DPA is a mile marker.

Effective leadership will push for the needed reforms. If they don't, the DPA (or something similar) will win a representational election.

 

Carl;
As Bar points out, I support unity of all pilots through the National structure. As he states, we have resolved the conflict at the national level so that it does not spill in to our section six talks. We resolve those squabbles there and not outside of this structure. The process may be ugly but though ALPA it is a contained mess.

Bar says my position very simplistically, "Moving out of ALPA Harms Unity." It really can not be said any clearer than that. You term it as "panic, fear, fear mongering, etc, and on some level I do have concern, concern that many do not understand the power of unity, and how that power is solidified for the delta pilots at the national level through ALPA National.

Again, that is why I say, fix the organization.

 

The conflict of interest does not exist, because each pilot group negotiates for itself. Unlike the Teamsters, there is no "business agent" that makes decisions on what to negotiate at the table. Local pilots make that decision, and the attorneys work for them. If DALPA wants to take back flying, they can do that. If DALPA wants to outsource more flying, they can do that as well. Either way, the choice is up to local pilots, not ALPA national. ALPA national is just the resource that you can use to accomplish the goals that your pilots set. Therefore, no conflict.

How many attorneys do you have on the 8th floor dedicated solely to DALPA? I doubt you even know.

Oh, how I wish that were true! I've always advocated for a more centralized union, but pilots always resist that, so we still have the autonomous MECs at each airline which ALPA National has no control over. The big brother than you imagine in your mind doesn't exist. ALPA national is a collection of resources, not an overlord.

 

Not really.

ALPA National has a process to resolve conflicts between MEC's. If an MEC goes off the reservation they can be put in receivership. As for negotiations, no contract can be made without the signature of ALPA's President.

I know of no examples where complaints from Regional MECs were not resolved in favor of the Majors.Well stated.

 

I'm trying real hard here Bar, but I'm just not following the logic. We might just be talking past each other.

On this we agree completely.

Carl

 

We've done no such thing. Majors have one view of scope that will take jobs away from the regionals. ALPA represents all sides. That's not even close to unity...in fact it's about as far away from unity as you can get. It's like saying the agents that bargain for the NFL and also bargain for the players creates unity among the NFL. That's nonesense. The players would never accept such conflicted representation. ALPA cannot represent both sides and give both sides what they want. To think otherwise is whistling past the graveyard.

Again, if there was ANY evidence to show that ALPA could be changed, you might have a point. There is no such evidence. ALPA has beaten back any and all attempts at reform and they have done so for decades. You say: "This time it will be different." I say: "Do your best, and keep us posted on how you're doing." In the meantime, cards are going to be counted.

Carl

 

You're just flat out wrong here...don't know how else to say it. To diminish ALPA national's role in ALL matters local and national is to show your ignorance of how our union works. I don't mean ignorant as an insult, just that you have not yet seen the underbelly yet. Either that or you just refuse to see what is plainly there.

Who writes their paychecks? And when you can answer that, you'll know who the attorneys and staffers work for.

Absolutely horrible idea, IMO. If that idea were ever really pushed hard by ALPA national, that might be what finally does them in.

Carl

 

And how is this?

 

Because the DPA starts with a divorce. Unity requires marriages.

To use Carl's analogy, think of us as a Football team. Our President is the Coach. The running back might have one idea on how to advance the ball, the wide receiver thinks he's open, one of the guys on the bench has seen this before and think he knows best ... they have conflicting opinions on how to advance the ball. But, the wining team executes the same play and works in a coordinated fashion.

It does not matter that there are different opinions, on the playing field they agree to function as a team.