Delta Pilots Association
11-02-2010 | 07:21 AM
#2171
On Reserve
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: I'm in a box
Okay, I get it. This thread is a laundry list of ALPA issues. Does anyone actually have any info about DPA or what they are doing or is this entire thread a waste of space? 200+ pages of why-I-hate-ALPA (or DALPA) and almost no actual posts on what DPA is doing. Is this even worth it's own thread if there's no relevant DPA information here to discuss? I say bring on the DPA talk or move on. This is the same four or five people talking to each other and rapidly losing focus. Time for lunch.
11-02-2010 | 08:08 AM
#2172
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,100
Likes: 86
That's all true, but a Local Council or MEC can only be placed in trusteeship under very extreme circumstances. It takes something on the level of financial malfeasance before someone gets placed in trusteeship. No one has ever been told that they can't negotiate for what they want to negotiate for. As for the signature of the president, that' also true, but the president will only refuse to sign if the contract violates ALPA policy in some way
While there was other stuff going on, that was the public justification.
Nu
11-02-2010 | 08:23 AM
#2173
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,100
Likes: 86
Heyas,
Who is who? Two press releases regarding the recent TSA issues (names blocked to make the game fun!):
Airline Union 1:
October 22, 2010 - The XXXXX fully supports effective airline passenger security screening. In fact, XXXXX played a key role in influencing the federal government to mandate passenger screening in the early 1970s.
Recently, the use of Advanced Imaging Technology (AIT) as a security screening tool has raised privacy and other concerns in North America and around the world. ALPA acknowledges the reservations and concerns that some have expressed about the use of AIT. Countering these issues, however, is the fact that AIT can provide a significantly greater level of security than do walk-through metal detectors to keep improvised explosive devices and other threat objects off of airline aircraft.
Looking to the future, XXXXXX is advocating for the development of a trust-based security system that will focus on determining whether an individual possesses hostile intent using threat-object detection technology as a supplement to the screening process. Once implemented, this system will help reduce the need for use of invasive screening methods for the vast majority of the traveling public.
Responding to a Congressional mandate, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has already endorsed one component of a threat-based security system by approving implementation of the XXXXX-conceived Crew Personnel Advanced Screening System (CrewPASS). CrewPASS, a dedicated security screening process for flight crewmembers, validates the identity and confirms the employment status of crewmembers in real time. XXXXXX has obtained the required approval from TSA for nationwide CrewPASS implementation; the Association is urging each carrier to make this system available for use of their flight crewmembers.
Airline Union 2
Fellow Pilots,
In response to increased threats to civil aviation around the world, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has implemented the use of Advanced Imaging Technology (AIT) body scanners at some airport locations.
While I’m sure that each of us recognizes that the threats to our lives are real, the practice of airport security screening of airline pilots has spun out of control and does nothing to improve national security. It’s long past time that policymakers take the steps necessary to exempt commercial pilots from airport security screening and grant designated pilot access to SIDA utilizing either Crew Pass or biometric identification. As I recently wrote to the TSA Administrator:
“Our pilots are highly motivated partners in the effort to protect our nation's security, with many of us serving as Federal Flight Deck Officers. We are all keenly aware that we may serve as the last line of defense against another terrorist attack on commercial aviation. Rather than being viewed as potential threats, we should be treated commensurate with the authority and responsibility that we are vested with as professional pilots.”
It is important to note that there are “backscatter” AIT devices now being deployed that produce ionizing radiation, which could be harmful to your health. Airline pilots in the United States already receive higher doses of radiation in their on-the-job environment than nearly every other category of worker in the United States, including nuclear power plant employees. As I also stated in my recent letter to the Administrator of the TSA:
“We are exposed to radiation every day on the job. For example, a typical Atlantic crossing during a solar flare can expose a pilot to radiation equivalent to 100 chest X-rays per hour. Requiring pilots to go through the AIT means additional radiation exposure. I share our pilots' concerns about this additional radiation exposure and plan to recommend that our pilots refrain from going through the AIT. We already experience significantly higher radiation exposure than most other occupations, and there is mounting evidence of higher-than-average cancer rates as a consequence.”
It’s safe to say that most of the XXXXX leadership shares my view that no pilot at XXXXXXXXX should subject themselves to the needless privacy invasion and potential health risks caused by the AIT body scanners. I therefore recommend that the pilots of XXXXXXXXXXXXX consider the following guidelines:
Use designated crew lines if available.
Politely decline AIT exposure and request alternative screening.
There is absolutely no denying that the enhanced pat-down is a demeaning experience. In my view, it is unacceptable to submit to one in public while wearing the uniform of a professional airline pilot. I recommend that all pilots insist that such screening is performed in an out-of-view area to protect their privacy and dignity.
If screening delays your arrival at the cockpit, do not cut corners that jeopardize the safety of the flight. Consummate professionalism and safety are always paramount.
Maintain composure and professionalism at all times and recognize that you are probably being videotaped.
If you feel that you have been treated with less than courtesy, respect and professionalism, please submit an observer report to XXXXX. Please be sure to include the time, date, security checkpoint and name of the TSA employee who performed the screening. Avoid confrontation.
Your XXXX Board of Directors and National Officers are holding a conference call this week to discuss these issues and further guidance may be forthcoming.
While I cannot promise results tomorrow, I pledge to dedicate XXXXX resources in the days and weeks to come to achieve direct access to SIDA for the pilots of XXXXXXXXX. In the meantime, I am confident that you will continue to exhibit your usual utmost professionalism as you safely operate and protect our nation's air transport system.
Who is who? Two press releases regarding the recent TSA issues (names blocked to make the game fun!):
Airline Union 1:
October 22, 2010 - The XXXXX fully supports effective airline passenger security screening. In fact, XXXXX played a key role in influencing the federal government to mandate passenger screening in the early 1970s.
Recently, the use of Advanced Imaging Technology (AIT) as a security screening tool has raised privacy and other concerns in North America and around the world. ALPA acknowledges the reservations and concerns that some have expressed about the use of AIT. Countering these issues, however, is the fact that AIT can provide a significantly greater level of security than do walk-through metal detectors to keep improvised explosive devices and other threat objects off of airline aircraft.
Looking to the future, XXXXXX is advocating for the development of a trust-based security system that will focus on determining whether an individual possesses hostile intent using threat-object detection technology as a supplement to the screening process. Once implemented, this system will help reduce the need for use of invasive screening methods for the vast majority of the traveling public.
Responding to a Congressional mandate, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has already endorsed one component of a threat-based security system by approving implementation of the XXXXX-conceived Crew Personnel Advanced Screening System (CrewPASS). CrewPASS, a dedicated security screening process for flight crewmembers, validates the identity and confirms the employment status of crewmembers in real time. XXXXXX has obtained the required approval from TSA for nationwide CrewPASS implementation; the Association is urging each carrier to make this system available for use of their flight crewmembers.
Airline Union 2
Fellow Pilots,
In response to increased threats to civil aviation around the world, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has implemented the use of Advanced Imaging Technology (AIT) body scanners at some airport locations.
While I’m sure that each of us recognizes that the threats to our lives are real, the practice of airport security screening of airline pilots has spun out of control and does nothing to improve national security. It’s long past time that policymakers take the steps necessary to exempt commercial pilots from airport security screening and grant designated pilot access to SIDA utilizing either Crew Pass or biometric identification. As I recently wrote to the TSA Administrator:
“Our pilots are highly motivated partners in the effort to protect our nation's security, with many of us serving as Federal Flight Deck Officers. We are all keenly aware that we may serve as the last line of defense against another terrorist attack on commercial aviation. Rather than being viewed as potential threats, we should be treated commensurate with the authority and responsibility that we are vested with as professional pilots.”
It is important to note that there are “backscatter” AIT devices now being deployed that produce ionizing radiation, which could be harmful to your health. Airline pilots in the United States already receive higher doses of radiation in their on-the-job environment than nearly every other category of worker in the United States, including nuclear power plant employees. As I also stated in my recent letter to the Administrator of the TSA:
“We are exposed to radiation every day on the job. For example, a typical Atlantic crossing during a solar flare can expose a pilot to radiation equivalent to 100 chest X-rays per hour. Requiring pilots to go through the AIT means additional radiation exposure. I share our pilots' concerns about this additional radiation exposure and plan to recommend that our pilots refrain from going through the AIT. We already experience significantly higher radiation exposure than most other occupations, and there is mounting evidence of higher-than-average cancer rates as a consequence.”
It’s safe to say that most of the XXXXX leadership shares my view that no pilot at XXXXXXXXX should subject themselves to the needless privacy invasion and potential health risks caused by the AIT body scanners. I therefore recommend that the pilots of XXXXXXXXXXXXX consider the following guidelines:
Use designated crew lines if available.
Politely decline AIT exposure and request alternative screening.
There is absolutely no denying that the enhanced pat-down is a demeaning experience. In my view, it is unacceptable to submit to one in public while wearing the uniform of a professional airline pilot. I recommend that all pilots insist that such screening is performed in an out-of-view area to protect their privacy and dignity.
If screening delays your arrival at the cockpit, do not cut corners that jeopardize the safety of the flight. Consummate professionalism and safety are always paramount.
Maintain composure and professionalism at all times and recognize that you are probably being videotaped.
If you feel that you have been treated with less than courtesy, respect and professionalism, please submit an observer report to XXXXX. Please be sure to include the time, date, security checkpoint and name of the TSA employee who performed the screening. Avoid confrontation.
Your XXXX Board of Directors and National Officers are holding a conference call this week to discuss these issues and further guidance may be forthcoming.
While I cannot promise results tomorrow, I pledge to dedicate XXXXX resources in the days and weeks to come to achieve direct access to SIDA for the pilots of XXXXXXXXX. In the meantime, I am confident that you will continue to exhibit your usual utmost professionalism as you safely operate and protect our nation's air transport system.
11-02-2010 | 08:36 AM
#2174
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
From: No to large RJs
Okay, I get it. This thread is a laundry list of ALPA issues. Does anyone actually have any info about DPA or what they are doing or is this entire thread a waste of space? 200+ pages of why-I-hate-ALPA (or DALPA) and almost no actual posts on what DPA is doing. Is this even worth it's own thread if there's no relevant DPA information here to discuss? I say bring on the DPA talk or move on. This is the same four or five people talking to each other and rapidly losing focus. Time for lunch.
11-02-2010 | 08:38 AM
#2175
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Heyas,
Who is who? Two press releases regarding the recent TSA issues (names blocked to make the game fun!):
Airline Union 1:
October 22, 2010 - The XXXXX fully supports effective airline passenger security screening. In fact, XXXXX played a key role in influencing the federal government to mandate passenger screening in the early 1970s.
Recently, the use of Advanced Imaging Technology (AIT) as a security screening tool has raised privacy and other concerns in North America and around the world. ALPA acknowledges the reservations and concerns that some have expressed about the use of AIT. Countering these issues, however, is the fact that AIT can provide a significantly greater level of security than do walk-through metal detectors to keep improvised explosive devices and other threat objects off of airline aircraft.
Looking to the future, XXXXXX is advocating for the development of a trust-based security system that will focus on determining whether an individual possesses hostile intent using threat-object detection technology as a supplement to the screening process. Once implemented, this system will help reduce the need for use of invasive screening methods for the vast majority of the traveling public.
Responding to a Congressional mandate, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has already endorsed one component of a threat-based security system by approving implementation of the XXXXX-conceived Crew Personnel Advanced Screening System (CrewPASS). CrewPASS, a dedicated security screening process for flight crewmembers, validates the identity and confirms the employment status of crewmembers in real time. XXXXXX has obtained the required approval from TSA for nationwide CrewPASS implementation; the Association is urging each carrier to make this system available for use of their flight crewmembers.
Airline Union 2
Fellow Pilots,
In response to increased threats to civil aviation around the world, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has implemented the use of Advanced Imaging Technology (AIT) body scanners at some airport locations.
While I’m sure that each of us recognizes that the threats to our lives are real, the practice of airport security screening of airline pilots has spun out of control and does nothing to improve national security. It’s long past time that policymakers take the steps necessary to exempt commercial pilots from airport security screening and grant designated pilot access to SIDA utilizing either Crew Pass or biometric identification. As I recently wrote to the TSA Administrator:
“Our pilots are highly motivated partners in the effort to protect our nation's security, with many of us serving as Federal Flight Deck Officers. We are all keenly aware that we may serve as the last line of defense against another terrorist attack on commercial aviation. Rather than being viewed as potential threats, we should be treated commensurate with the authority and responsibility that we are vested with as professional pilots.”
It is important to note that there are “backscatter” AIT devices now being deployed that produce ionizing radiation, which could be harmful to your health. Airline pilots in the United States already receive higher doses of radiation in their on-the-job environment than nearly every other category of worker in the United States, including nuclear power plant employees. As I also stated in my recent letter to the Administrator of the TSA:
“We are exposed to radiation every day on the job. For example, a typical Atlantic crossing during a solar flare can expose a pilot to radiation equivalent to 100 chest X-rays per hour. Requiring pilots to go through the AIT means additional radiation exposure. I share our pilots' concerns about this additional radiation exposure and plan to recommend that our pilots refrain from going through the AIT. We already experience significantly higher radiation exposure than most other occupations, and there is mounting evidence of higher-than-average cancer rates as a consequence.”
It’s safe to say that most of the XXXXX leadership shares my view that no pilot at XXXXXXXXX should subject themselves to the needless privacy invasion and potential health risks caused by the AIT body scanners. I therefore recommend that the pilots of XXXXXXXXXXXXX consider the following guidelines:
Use designated crew lines if available.
Politely decline AIT exposure and request alternative screening.
There is absolutely no denying that the enhanced pat-down is a demeaning experience. In my view, it is unacceptable to submit to one in public while wearing the uniform of a professional airline pilot. I recommend that all pilots insist that such screening is performed in an out-of-view area to protect their privacy and dignity.
If screening delays your arrival at the cockpit, do not cut corners that jeopardize the safety of the flight. Consummate professionalism and safety are always paramount.
Maintain composure and professionalism at all times and recognize that you are probably being videotaped.
If you feel that you have been treated with less than courtesy, respect and professionalism, please submit an observer report to XXXXX. Please be sure to include the time, date, security checkpoint and name of the TSA employee who performed the screening. Avoid confrontation.
Your XXXX Board of Directors and National Officers are holding a conference call this week to discuss these issues and further guidance may be forthcoming.
While I cannot promise results tomorrow, I pledge to dedicate XXXXX resources in the days and weeks to come to achieve direct access to SIDA for the pilots of XXXXXXXXX. In the meantime, I am confident that you will continue to exhibit your usual utmost professionalism as you safely operate and protect our nation's air transport system.
Who is who? Two press releases regarding the recent TSA issues (names blocked to make the game fun!):
Airline Union 1:
October 22, 2010 - The XXXXX fully supports effective airline passenger security screening. In fact, XXXXX played a key role in influencing the federal government to mandate passenger screening in the early 1970s.
Recently, the use of Advanced Imaging Technology (AIT) as a security screening tool has raised privacy and other concerns in North America and around the world. ALPA acknowledges the reservations and concerns that some have expressed about the use of AIT. Countering these issues, however, is the fact that AIT can provide a significantly greater level of security than do walk-through metal detectors to keep improvised explosive devices and other threat objects off of airline aircraft.
Looking to the future, XXXXXX is advocating for the development of a trust-based security system that will focus on determining whether an individual possesses hostile intent using threat-object detection technology as a supplement to the screening process. Once implemented, this system will help reduce the need for use of invasive screening methods for the vast majority of the traveling public.
Responding to a Congressional mandate, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has already endorsed one component of a threat-based security system by approving implementation of the XXXXX-conceived Crew Personnel Advanced Screening System (CrewPASS). CrewPASS, a dedicated security screening process for flight crewmembers, validates the identity and confirms the employment status of crewmembers in real time. XXXXXX has obtained the required approval from TSA for nationwide CrewPASS implementation; the Association is urging each carrier to make this system available for use of their flight crewmembers.
Airline Union 2
Fellow Pilots,
In response to increased threats to civil aviation around the world, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has implemented the use of Advanced Imaging Technology (AIT) body scanners at some airport locations.
While I’m sure that each of us recognizes that the threats to our lives are real, the practice of airport security screening of airline pilots has spun out of control and does nothing to improve national security. It’s long past time that policymakers take the steps necessary to exempt commercial pilots from airport security screening and grant designated pilot access to SIDA utilizing either Crew Pass or biometric identification. As I recently wrote to the TSA Administrator:
“Our pilots are highly motivated partners in the effort to protect our nation's security, with many of us serving as Federal Flight Deck Officers. We are all keenly aware that we may serve as the last line of defense against another terrorist attack on commercial aviation. Rather than being viewed as potential threats, we should be treated commensurate with the authority and responsibility that we are vested with as professional pilots.”
It is important to note that there are “backscatter” AIT devices now being deployed that produce ionizing radiation, which could be harmful to your health. Airline pilots in the United States already receive higher doses of radiation in their on-the-job environment than nearly every other category of worker in the United States, including nuclear power plant employees. As I also stated in my recent letter to the Administrator of the TSA:
“We are exposed to radiation every day on the job. For example, a typical Atlantic crossing during a solar flare can expose a pilot to radiation equivalent to 100 chest X-rays per hour. Requiring pilots to go through the AIT means additional radiation exposure. I share our pilots' concerns about this additional radiation exposure and plan to recommend that our pilots refrain from going through the AIT. We already experience significantly higher radiation exposure than most other occupations, and there is mounting evidence of higher-than-average cancer rates as a consequence.”
It’s safe to say that most of the XXXXX leadership shares my view that no pilot at XXXXXXXXX should subject themselves to the needless privacy invasion and potential health risks caused by the AIT body scanners. I therefore recommend that the pilots of XXXXXXXXXXXXX consider the following guidelines:
Use designated crew lines if available.
Politely decline AIT exposure and request alternative screening.
There is absolutely no denying that the enhanced pat-down is a demeaning experience. In my view, it is unacceptable to submit to one in public while wearing the uniform of a professional airline pilot. I recommend that all pilots insist that such screening is performed in an out-of-view area to protect their privacy and dignity.
If screening delays your arrival at the cockpit, do not cut corners that jeopardize the safety of the flight. Consummate professionalism and safety are always paramount.
Maintain composure and professionalism at all times and recognize that you are probably being videotaped.
If you feel that you have been treated with less than courtesy, respect and professionalism, please submit an observer report to XXXXX. Please be sure to include the time, date, security checkpoint and name of the TSA employee who performed the screening. Avoid confrontation.
Your XXXX Board of Directors and National Officers are holding a conference call this week to discuss these issues and further guidance may be forthcoming.
While I cannot promise results tomorrow, I pledge to dedicate XXXXX resources in the days and weeks to come to achieve direct access to SIDA for the pilots of XXXXXXXXX. In the meantime, I am confident that you will continue to exhibit your usual utmost professionalism as you safely operate and protect our nation's air transport system.
Union #1 is clearly ALPA. What do I win Vanna?
Carl
11-02-2010 | 09:26 AM
#2177
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
That's all true, but a Local Council or MEC can only be placed in trusteeship under very extreme circumstances. It takes something on the level of financial malfeasance before someone gets placed in trusteeship. No one has ever been told that they can't negotiate for what they want to negotiate for.
Also reference, CC Air.
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
As the 900lb gorilla we get what we want. Conflicts have always been resolved in our favor before anyone sits down at a bargaining table with management.
Originally Posted by Carl
I believe that is patently false.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 11-02-2010 at 09:56 AM.
11-02-2010 | 09:46 AM
#2178
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
And if there had ever been a single case of a pilot group being told that they can't negotiate for something that they want, then you might have a point. But you don't.
Many MECs involve outside consultants in their negotiations. Never been a problem, although I personally think that it's usually a waste of money.
Many MECs involve outside consultants in their negotiations. Never been a problem, although I personally think that it's usually a waste of money.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 11-02-2010 at 09:57 AM.
11-02-2010 | 10:06 AM
#2179
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 9
From: 3fidy
You really are a condescending a$$. I could care less about any message you may have when I read the first couple lines of most of your posts. ACL doesn't need anyone to defend him but I can't stand your belittling attitude. You're like the playground bully who resorts to pushing and name calling when you don't get your way. You must be a blast to fly with. Yikes.
Last edited by Hawaii50; 11-02-2010 at 10:20 AM.
11-02-2010 | 10:57 AM
#2180
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
Likes: 0
From: Poodle Whisperer
Carl, see above Sir. These are all history that can be verified publicly. Further, many pilots will fill you in on the battle between the Delta MEC, Comair MEC, ASA MEC and pilots at the subsidiaries who sought relief through the Federal Courts. These battles were fought with ALPA firmly on the side of the Delta MEC.
For good reason. I remember watching that mess from the outside and wondering why on earth the Comair guys were making the position they were making, other than that they were stuck lifers. They sure weren't acting like union brothers...
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