Wrap yourself in the flag and call it a democracy all you want.. but it is not. I don't know about you, but I got no vote for Grand Poobah. Oh.. you meant representative democracy... I see... where a handful of people get to decide what's best for all of us. Kind of like the federal government. and we all know how well that is working these days.

As for the rest of your post...

You used the word stupid 3 times. I get it. You are satisfied with the direction and leadership at national. We have differing opinions. Lee has 6 months to convince me I am wrong.

Note: not holding breath for real meaningful change.

JMHO

 

I cannot answer a blanked question for eternity, but it is my position that the first section six after the CH11 era is probably the worst time to consider it.

As I have said there are a bunch of items that ALPA National will be the defacto best to represent our interest going forward. We will have one shot to get it right, and either refusing to budge on an issue, or being left out of the debate will only cause a greater negative effect on our career.

You have said you give the new admin six months. I am not sure what you expect, but lets give them time and see what they do. I want to see this next section six done, signed and sealed before we would ever seriously contemplate shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

It's a democratic organization, anyone can run, anyone can vote for who they choose. The "Grand Poobah" doesn't set the direction, your elected reps do, whether at the MEC or BOD.

These "handful of people" are elected by their local councils and accountable to them.

I have no idea what DPA has to offer other than a webboard, an inability to follow through with promises, lack of transparency, no constitution and by-laws, no committee structure, no representation department, no communications and no financial disclosures.

I think I'll stick with the national union that's dedicated to this profession, has the resources and structure needed to represent 12,000 Delta pilots, the experience and capabilities independent unions are unable to obtain on their own without coming to ALPA for a service agreement, a representation department that is capable of representing and protecting its members interests, and leadership that is democratically elected and accountable.

 

OK, but at least you'd consider it.

Oh well, just another example of acl65pilot double speak. First paragraph makes it sounds like you'd consider it. Second paragraph describes the effort as "shooting ourselves in the foot." Since most normal people wouldn't consider shooting themselves in the foot, it's obvious your first paragraph is BS. You won't consider an in-house under ANY circumstances. Just say it dude...confession is good for the soul. When you constantly try to talk out of all sides of your mouth, you look like a baseless politician.

Carl

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsquare View Post
Same question I asked sailingfun... you feel that there will never be a good time to get rid of the bloated bureaucracy that is national... right?


DPA's own time line states they need to have the cards to call for a vote no later then 1 Jan 11 to properly represent the pilots in the new contract. I assume next week we will have a announcement from DPA. We have the cards and are calling for a election or we do not and are withdrawing from the process.
Even if they have the cards now I find it almost a fantasy that they can put together a new union and the infrastructure into place in DC needed for this contract in the amount of time they now have. Dues structure will have to be very high to try and support such a short time line and get things started.

 

On paper, that's how it's supposed to be. In reality, the Grand Poobah did indeed set the agenda. Lee arrived into union meetings last. When he did, all fDelta pilots stood up until Lee sat down. The fNorthwest pilots did not, but that's another story. All of my first hand accounts from reps during Lee's tenure was that the MEC Chairman set the agenda and executed it.

As THEY see the future of this profession. That future vision doesn't agree with mine. I don't want RJ growth because I don't believe it when ALPA says it's good for the majors. I don't want my employer using Delta's revenue to guarantee the profits of regionals. I don't want my union using my dues dollars to support the union efforts of a pilot group dedicated to growing THEIR airline.

Yes it has the resources...paid by Delta pilots. Only 30 cents on our dues dollars are returned to us as "resources." I don't like that. I want a far higher percentage returned to us locally. I want NOTHING of ours going to help support the efforts of regional pilot representation.

Pure ALPA spin and BS. Call David Bates (President of the APA) and describe their service agreement with ALPA the way you just did. He'll tell you that it's simply incorrect. He'll tell you that using ALPA services is being done in conjuction with their very capable negotiators and economic analysts. APA is still running the negotiations 100%. ALPA is just PART of their team.

It's capable of representing, but it's not doing so equally. They are actively pursuing the growth and health of regional airlines using our dues to do so. They believe that major's growth has peaked and our salaries have all but peaked. They believe the way to improve our profession is by raising the bottom, not raising the top. I firmly disagree. We need to do both. Delta pilots need to raise the top using our dues money, and the regionals need to raise their bottom using their dues money.

Democratically elected...Yes. Accountable to the members...not even close. ALPA national does what they want, when they want to do it. If DPA is beaten back (as it looks like it may), ALPA will return to it's old ways of telling you what you'll get and ignoring your wishes if they don't happen to align with national.

We'll at least have the comfort of knowing that acl65pilot will be changing ALPA from within.

Carl

 

Even IF you are correct in your stated opinon, you'll have an all new set of opinions and "facts" after the new contract is signed. Those new opinions and "facts" will be to shun anything other than ALPA national. Tsquare's point is that there will never be a good time for you and the other's who are hopelessly devoted and madly in love with ALPA national. Love and emotion are hard to have logical discussions with.

Carl

 

Carl;
I world but only if they could supply the resources we currently have. That is why to date I have not seen any option that would not shoot us in the foot. Get a group that can at a min provide that and then we can have a debate on the organizations. Right now that reality is not even being looked at. Reroute as brought that up and it has been glossed over.

Buy what the DPA is currently selling and you will have buyers remorse. The intent may be there and that is great, but there needs to be support services there to back up that intent. Until then it s all fart and no .....!

 

Resources like the ones we now have can be purchased on the open market. Probably at a better rate for the same product. It's called competition... look into it. It's a prime reason why you are paid the low wages you now are. You are so afraid that Dewey Cheatem and Howe are the ONLY law firm that can manage our affairs. I got news for you. Lawschools are pumping out a thousand lawyers a month.. I can GUARANTEE you that there is somebody as goo.. if not better that the guys we now have .. and maybe at a better price. Aeromed is a vendor... next? You and reroute and karnak are all just scared to try something new... I understand that.

 

DPA has deleted the timeline from their website Carl. Can you tell us why they have done that? They did forget to delete a portion of it and still reference the need for a May election. Did they not believe there own time line for when they needed to have things done to properly represent the pilots?