Okay, fair enough. I agree with you that a "fractured" pilot group is not what we need going into section six. I'm not sure I agree that it's too late to replace ALPA with DPA and build the necessary unity in time for section six. In other words, this would certainly need to be done very soon (we don't have a lot of time), but I'm not sure we're past the point where it is doable.

I can live with ALPA or DPA, as long as restoring our profession and our careers is the focus. I have seen a few signs of ALPA beginning to embrace this (mainly from talking to some of the reps), but it's way too early to tell about the new MEC administration and whether it will change to a "bottom up" structure. Also, I do not know how you solve the conflict of interest at ALPA National. The complete lack of an appropriate objective, combined with the conflict of interest, makes me lean toward making the change to DPA. But, on the other hand, DPA has not been very forthcoming with specific objectives either... and, as PG points out, they seem to be floundering with regard to their stated timeline.

To me, I guess it boils down to whether ALPA will make it crystal clear that restoration is our objective and somehow solve the conflict of interest. Otherwise, by default, I would choose DPA simply because I don't think it could be any worse.

 

Restoration has to be comprehensive though. Be very wary of saber rattling about restoration because, as in the past, scope may be sold for temporary pay raises. Just like if you trade freedom for security you end up with neither long term, if you trade scope for pay you end up with neither.

Also, keeping scope where it is can be called nothing other than a massive concession. 250+ large "RJ's" with a first class being outsourced is a drag on every seat, every pay rate, every benefit in the system. Does ALPA get that? Does DALPA get that? Or will C12K be primarily about the illusion of an hourly rate increase without fixing scope?

 

I can only speak for myself, but restoration to me is pay and scope. I think most of our pilot group has figured out that higher hourly pay rates across the board mean nothing if you don't have a job or if you are flying in a lower paying seat. It is ridiculous that such a huge percentage of our domestic flying is outsourced. That never should have been allowed to happen in the first place, and it needs to be corrected ASAP. This mass outsourcing has cost us thousands of jobs... and the product we are offering to our customers is an embarrassment.

 

If you're seeing that, it's great. I can't remember what the RLA says with regard to when section 6 openers can be exchanged. It's either 18 months prior or 6 months prior to the amendable date. If it's 18 months prior, then DPA will have to have 51% really soon.

If the DPA drive fails, the only way to mitigate ALPA national's sickening conflict of interest will be to put enormous pressure on our reps. We will have to remind them constantly of what they said to us about the importance of scope. We'll have to remind them constantly that it's OK to ignore the ALPA "experts" who tell us that RJ's are good for Delta. We'll have to remind them constantly to ignore the new ALPA president when he says that RJ's are good for Delta.

We will have to beat our reps up so badly, that they'll have the courage to stand up to the tremendous leverage and financial pressure exerted by ALPA national. It will be a tall order, but we'll all have to be more vocal than ever before to our reps. Otherwise, the regionals will grow at the expense of Delta pilots. And that growth will be aided by the union dues of Delta pilots.

Carl

 

Spot on as usual. But to correct it, we'll have to fight management really hard...and ALPA national even harder.

Carl

 

So then basically you feel there will never be a time when ALPA has outlived it's usefulness to the Delta pilots. There is never any reason to question that ALPA is the be all end all of pilots' associations. There can be no fault that cannot be corrected under the current system and structure of the association. Is that about right? Because the way it is going, all I see is an arrogance about the organization in that there is none better.. and therefore they can continue to do business as usual... however they choose to do so. ACL thinks ALPA can be reformed from within. We have been down this road a hundred times on this thread. I disagree. ALPA (national) is waaaay too political. If you ain't one of the boys.. you ain't one of the boys.

Happy New Year

My offer to drive Lee's car to DC so that he has one will stand until he is replaced by the next good ole boy.

 

Bwaaaa haaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaa.....


oh, you're serious. tremendous pressure.. ALPA national....that's a good one.

 

I meant the tremendous pressure that ALPA national exerts on DALPA and the other ALPA locals through the distribution of the locals' own dues money. Do you not agree with that?

Carl

 

Same question I asked sailingfun... you feel that there will never be a good time to get rid of the bloated bureaucracy that is national... right?

 

Yeah sorry... the phrase just struck me as funny. I know what you mean now... It still sounds funny when you break it down though