Carl-

Pulled the old contracts out and looked it up.

Peak 747-400 rate was $273.15. It then went to 232.18 with our pre-BK paycut. The BK agreement put it initially at 176.69.

DL

 

Pay attention. I'm trying to take one step at a time here because people like you don't even read much less comprehend anyone's post. The first step I'm trying to get my arms around is pay. Just pay. What will it take to restore pay to C2K levels.? People have been quoting 2 3 and even 4 billion dollars. All of those figures are completely made up.

The real figures are that restoring pay to C2K levels will be about 750 to 850 million. Not the billions that have been stated so often that you might assume it is fact.

And since you've mentioned the fact that we'll have two more pay raises between now and the end of this contract, that will make restoration to C2K levels less than 60%...not more. You say I conveniently forgot to mention this. Not at all. But since you mention it, restoration to C2K levels from the end of our current contract will be even less than 60% bumps in pay. Nice job Einstein.

Again, one step at a time. I'd love to see if this thread can get pay agreed to. But since you mention the DC, let's talk about that. There was no DC in C2K. Just millions per year in funding the DB plan. The DB plan is gone for fDAL pilots and the fNWA plan is frozen. I don't know the exact figures, but it would seem to me that millions in funding a DB plan cancels out a 14% DC plan. Would like to know the exact figures though.

Carl

 

273 was without international override. The 747 only flies international. So the actual rate was upwards of 280.

Carl

 

I know the exact figures for pilot compensation at NWA and Delta, I can pull it up if you need it. 2004 was the peak at an average of $305,000 per pilot in TOTAL compensation. Last year it was $176,000. ACL's figures are correct.

 

That would be great if you have the exact figures. Not total compensation because it's hard to compare apples to apples. Let's start out with just the pay rates and the pay compensation. What was the average pay per Delta pilot in the 2003 era, and how many pilots were there? When we have that figure, we can extrapolate out to today's average pay rate and today's total pilot population.

Thanks!

Carl

 

My apologies to those who have already seen this the several times I've previously posted it (and apologies to the bankers that this might make uncomfortable ), but I think the following could help in answering the above question:
__________________________________________________ _________

Perspective on Pay

Here’s a little perspective on our pay rates using October 1, 1986 and January 1, 2000 (1996 concessionary contract – preC2K) rates:

Let’s take a look at some examples of these past rates, and see what it would take in 2012 for true restoration of the buying power they provided:

(First we’ll look at some MD-88 Captain 12 year rates as a basis for comparison, and then we’ll look at some 767-300 Captain 12 year rates for the same comparisons.)

October 1, 1986 MD-88 Captain (12 yr) Rate: $135.53

January 1, 2000 MD-88 Captain (12 yr) Rate (pre-C2K): $175.00

January 1, 2012 MD-88 Captain (12 yr) Rate: $167.68

Adjusted for inflation to 2012 – (source: Tom’s Inflation Calculator)
The 1986 rate of $135.53 would be $280.13 in 2012.
The 2000 (pre-C2K) rate of $175.00 would be $233.58 in 2012.

To bring the October 1, 1986 rate to its inflation-adjusted value of $280.13 in 2012, would require a 67% increase to the current contract’s 2012 MD-88 Captain (12 yr) rate of $167.68.

To bring the January 1, 2000 (pre-C2K) rate to its inflation-adjusted value of $233.58 in 2012, would require a 33.5% increase to the current contract’s 2012 MD-88 Captain (12 yr) rate of $167.68. In other words, our new 2012 contract would need a 33.5% increase to this rate just to bring its buying power to the same level as the 1996 concessionary contract rate!


Now for the 767-300 –

October 1, 1986 767-300 Captain (12 yr) Rate: $158.21

January 1, 2000 767-300 Captain (12 yr) Rate (pre-C2K): $203.25

January 1, 2012 767-300 Captain (12 yr) Rate: $188.96

Adjusted for inflation to 2012 – (source: Tom’s Inflation Calculator)
The 1986 rate of $158.21 would be $327.01 in 2012.
The 2000 rate of $203.25 would be $271.29 in 2012.

To bring the October 1, 1986 rate to its inflation-adjusted value of $327.01 in 2012, would require a 73% increase to the current contract’s 2012 767-300 Captain (12 yr) rate of $188.96.

To bring the January 1, 2000 (pre-C2K) rate to its inflation-adjusted value of $271.29 in 2012, would require a 43.5% increase to the current contract‘s 2012 767-300 Captain (12 yr) rate of $188.96. In other words, our new 2012 contract would need a 43.5% increase to this rate just to bring its buying power to the same level as the 1996 concessionary contract rate!

*** Obviously, C2K buying power restoration would require substantially greater percentage increases than the ones shown above. ***

 

Anything less than C2k plus 12 years of cola raises is a complete failure. Less we forget the lies and the millions and millions handed out in executive retention bonuses. Anything less and shame on us.

 

So your telling me to pull up the guys name and ask him why they don't have an fo in MSP...for a one leg domestic...after 2 days of sc in JFK and 50 min shy of * days. That 5 hours pay is gonna cost me 26 hours away from home. I'm working Christmas. What is a JFK Erb doing in MSP?

 

The average w2 wage for pilots in 2003-2004 was about $210K, in 2009 it was about $138K. The total block hour cost per aircraft in terms of pilot wages was around $1200hr in 2003, it has since fallen to $690.

Interestingly enough the projected average salary of pilots in 2009 based off the C2K is $265,000 per pilot. By 2012 about a 100% pay increase is needed to cover the COL and full contract restoration of what was lost. Quite a difficult feat for any union.

 

I think there was a big weather event? when they run out of reserves somewhere they will DH others to cover if they can do it legally. One of the reasons that GSs aren't as good a deal as they used to be. Too many options with all the new bases for skeds to recover. Now I am thinking that the timeand a hlaf for time over 75 hours is a much better deal for just this kind of reason...