learned and interesting tidbit today. The DPA was told by DAL they could not do campaigning on DAL property. Guess we will see where this leads......

 

You might want to check on this one again, Carl. I show the peak 744 pay at $256/hr. Are you telling me you went down to $128 per hour?

 

Heyas ACL,

The problem is the way everyone is going about it.


ACL, you've outlined some pretty good reasons to keep ALPA on the property. Fairly rational, and resonably fact based (or at least as well as we have access to the facts).

There are some on one side, who maybe have a bit of good natured bravado, or maybe too much testosterone (or estrogen, for that matter, equal opportunity and all), see this as some kind of wargame, and are hyped up on the "mission" to defeat the newcomer. They see the current leadership as "their squadron", and will go to typical man-lengths to defend their bros... Understandable, but misplaced in this envrionment.

The "game" is NOT what this is about, and anyone who sees that going on is doing themselves and the pilot group a huge disservice.

If ALPA is the best choice for the pilot group, and all the facts are as you say they are, then it should be a clear choice. Rather than play the enevitable smear campaign, which will no doubt consume the time of several full time staffers, dozens more on FPL, and will probably cost hundereds of thousands, if not millions dollars, why not just lay out the facts?

Put the facts side by side and say "we feel that our record, resources and our ability speaks for itself, and this is what we're offering", and let the pilot group use its brain (yes, Virginia, we do have them) to decide for itself who can best advance the best interests of the DAL pilot group, without all the angst, hoopla, teeth gnashing and hurt feelings.

Personally, I think THAT is the kind of thing that the pilots would best respond to, and not the enevitable mud wrestling that is sure to ensue.

But this ISN'T just about who is representing the pilots. It's about a business that receives tens of millions of dollars in revenue. And money makes you do things, and shades everything that you do.

If the "machine" gets cranked up, the pilots will most certainly see it for what it is as more of the same, and I feel that will be a disservice to everyone.

I'm not a DPA supporter, and believe things can be fixed. We're a couple of LEC elections away of getting good things done. BUT, if someone decides to go all hammertime on fellow DAL pilots, then the end result will not be desirable.

Nu

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers"

 

Add in lost benefits, increased health care costs, loss of pension, and elimination of soft time, and I'll bet he's conservative.

Nu

 

Nu, I get your point.

If you remember:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Yes. In the case of us fNWA guys, it was about 50% of pay alone overnight in BK. The frozen pensions and loss of work rules were on top of that.


He said pay alone, and then added all the rest on top. I'm just looking for the facts, as the data I have doesn't support his statement.

 

Heck with peak pay of 256 per hr in 2012 the 744/777 rate will only be 31 dollars away or 14%. Add an inflationary cost of 18% or 46 dollars and you get 302 which would be a 34% bump.

Doing that across the board for the entire group at 18 million a percentage point, you arrive at a estimate of 612 million for NWA's PWA rates that mirror restoration plus inflation.

I guess I can see where Carl is getting that number from. Big difference Remember the 777 rate was 319 an hr. in 2004 at DAL.

Using that math you need 94 an hr to get to 2004 C2K rates or a 42% bump, add 18% for inflation and we are at a 60% bump. At 18 million a percent we are at a 1.08 billion dollar bump to go to "restoration" of DAL-S C2K 2004 rates.

Little bit of a disparity. So which restoration is it? The NWA contract, the DAL contract or a moderate "restoration" that is somewhere in between? All of it would be deemed restoration on some level.

Seems Carl that maybe we have been arguing different numbers. Is that the Case?

A billion a year is not chump change, and is a 50% increase to the overall cost of our contract. I see that as doable. Where we go from there, will be about unity.

 

Nu;

Good point. I have been talking to all of the pilots on every crew I fly with, and all of the ones hanging out at places like Camp NRT, and many are frustrated with the level of communication, not the direction per se. Many also freely admit that they have seen a change for the better, decent rep turnover, more two way communication, etc. All are hopeful that our new Master Chairman will be a good leader. Many are willing to give it a chance.

As I have said ALPA has warts. I prefer that over the unknown with the international issues that are coming down the pike. We can work on the National issues, and suspect we will see some movement on that with our New President. Keep pushing for the reform you desire, and over time the Association morphs. It may be hard to see but there is a deffinate shift in the way of doing business at the local and national level. That makes ALPA and DALPA relevant. If it can continue to meet the needs of its pilots, which I suspect it will, there is no need for change.

We hear ppl touting CAPA as an alternative on the national scale. Maybe they can, but it is really an untested product. When the Crewpass memo came out, I am not sure if you noticed, but USAPA and CAPA were both listed. That is not a division we need for ourselves. We need one unified voice on the National front. Not a voice that is unified when it suits us.

 

Let me give it a shot.


DC-9 Captain pre-BK. Made around $190 per hour.

After BK, with pay cuts, and being displaced, and only being able to hold F/O on the 757, only made $95 per hour. (50% less)

Disclaimer: It couldn't have happened overnight.

 

So thats where the term "first officer" came from. We all know newK is never second!

 

Man you really were in Asia, weren't you!

I'm glad you no class warfare.
Class warfare bad.
You no class warfare now, maybe we love you long time Joe. Long time!

Carl