Sailing,

This is what happens when you have a your side vs. my side argument. There are a lot of things you, acl, and pineapple, are saying to justify asking for less. I might have missed a few key points with you, but I am hitting the nail on the head against the points you and the others present to justify your,"let's take two bites at the apple approach." I don't think you fully addressed any of my points, though. I'll leave it at that, for now.

Will I support what the membership wants? Sure. But, I don't think that has ever been the issue. I will use every means to increase whoever I come in contact with to increase their expectations for the next contract, if they are lower than mine, though.

For the people I come in contact with at work, that has not been a problem. I haven't had to do it one time. They all want restoration, which is apparently the opposite of what you are running into. I don't know why we are sensing different attitudes around campus.

I speculate that maybe your FO's are a little hesitant to tell you what they want after you give your "Delta Air Lines cannot survive restoration because the employees will be jealous and they can't afford it" speech. If I tried that, my FO's would tell me to go to hell.

But, if you think the majority of Delta pilots will idly sit by and not get madder and madder when Air Tran -- soon to be SWA -- pilots taxi by, then maybe I don't know Delta pilots. We will see. I hope you are wrong.


New K Now

 

Dude,

If you didn't read the post I made previous to this (#3104), we are so much on the same page it's scary. I don't know who's senior, but I suggest you stay in MEM and I stay in DTW. Otherwise, we would be bidding for the same trips and vacations.

 

New K. It was not my FO's. Talk to your reps about what the computer and phone survey showed. I will admit those surveys were before the last quarters profits and as I mentioned sometime next year there will be a full written contract survey sent to all pilots.

AMR is now back to square one after 4 years. They are starting all over again with talks with the company. Once those again break down they are going to have to apply to the NMB all over again for mediation. I fail to see why you think the outcome would be different at Delta. Especially since the NMB is viewed as labor friendly now and that likely will change after Obama term ends. It now appears highly unlikely that AMR will have a contract before our amendable date. Thats bad for them and bad for us. We will have pay rates higher then theirs starting negotiations. Somehow I don't see adopting the APA method as a smart move.

 

sailingfun,

You never addressed my question about BOB...... Ever hear of BOB?

 

Just curious, did the majority of DAL pilots answer the survey?

 

The Scientific Phone survey will keep calling someone from a specific cross section until they get the response needed.

DAL88;
Whatever our majority position become, I will support it. It is called unity.

 

Two quarters DAL88 does not make prove the plan will be successful going forward.

My guess is 2011 will be in the black but not to the extent this year was.

We do not get paid what we are worth. We get paid what we negotiate. Even if we demand it, we may not get it if it makes the (for profit) company's solvency come in to question. With CH11 and the previous five years as an example, the only way a single step to these pay raises happens, is if all of the major players go play golf one day and think that it is a good idea

Until you can make pilot costs a fix cost across the industry it is going to very hard for any airline to willfully agree to price itself out of many of its markets. Many investors want 10%+ margins to continue to finance an airline. (Suspect they will be happy with 5-7%) but the reality is that as a whole the industry and this profession face stiff headwinds.


The Manager:
I see where you are going with your idea. I makes a lot of sense on the surface, and could be something that is looked at if we opt to change the current formulas. It at least as a static valuation to it.


DAL88;
My person assumption is that DAL can afford at least 1.5-2 times the total raises we got under the JPWA on day one. That is my assumption, and does not include work rule changes.

 

You will have to re ask the question. I must have missed it.

 

Sounds like NO, the phone survey did not question the majority of DAL pilots.

 

newKnow,

Thanks for posting. You have put into words what I have been thinking for some time. I try to read, keep my mind open and not get drawl into a pi**ing contest with those who have different views. I know we all want the best for all Delta pilots in C2012 and just differ on how to get there. I plan to punch out in 13 years, so this two bite approach may not work so well for the many of us in out late 40's and early 50's. I could always stay the extra 5 years like Billy Cole (that didn't workout well for him), but I would rather be riding a tractor and hunting with family. I also understand the younger guys don't want to upset the growth, as they want more guys below them for the next down cycle. (I fly with lots of FOs who were on the street, some twice.)

FYI: Billy Cole stayed passed 60 and died a month after retiring, never collected a retirement check. (Ask a north guy about FUBC)