Carl, I will try again. Management decides the process in which scope is recaptured, not the union. If the union in section 6, actually gets a section 1 saying, "All flying done by Delta seniority list pilots", it is up to management to comply with that section. The union can only grieve it if management doesn't comply. The problem is, a hostile management will make this recapture as painful as it could possibly be. Mainline pilots will not be able to deal with the consequences of these actions. It's even possible for management to get its hands in a seniority list integration and put regional pilots even above you Carl on the new seniority list. Are you prepared to deal with that, is the DPA? ALPA apparently is not able to deal with that.

As I see it, the only way to get scope recaptured is to have management willingly put it back on the mainline list. You'll have to come up with some new ideas that have never been thought of before to accomplish that.

 

The ideas are there.

Let use CAL/UAL and the 70+ seat scope issue. They won in court and got an injunction, so if management chose not to comply, trust me a court of law would tell them, "A contract is a contract."

As for integration. There are ideas that I have talked to my regional counterparts about that they see as agreeable. First, the decision to tackle the elephant in the room needs to be decided. Until then it is all theory.

 

+1 I have no idea who ACL is flying with. Vert few of the guys I fly with have heard of DPA.. and most if not all are truly fed up with alpa national.

 

National can do nothing except use their "experts" to continually pressure our MEC and negotiators to understand ALPA's view. And in case you haven't noticed, ALPA's view is to be all things to all people. To raise the standard of the airline pilot profession by arguing FOR growing the regionals. The new ALPA president has stated over and over again that RJ's are good for Delta Air Lines. The new MEC chairman has yet to describe Scope as an issue that is cared about by the pilots.

Here's what you're missing: We pilots at the majors ALREADY HAVE done "something" for those ALPA brothers and sisters at the regionals. We have given them our flying. This allowed people to log jet hours while being paid horribly low rates. Many could not have gotten these jet hours any other way due to their lack of qualifications and experience. These jet hours will allow them to APPLY to a major airline and compete with the experienced military, corporate and non-sched pilots of the nation. We've already done plenty.

Total BS. Many of these pilots are unhireable at Delta due to background problems. The ones that are hireable can do so via the normal application process. Your dream of a back door entry into the seniority list because you hired on with an RJ airline will not happen.

Carl

 

We didn't get a pay raise. We got a little back.. but it is not a raise... yet. We have a long way to go to get there. You spin it your way.. I'll spin it mine.

 

Absolutely under no circumstances. The flying we are taking back was always ours. There is no way these RJ pilots should be given any preference whatsoever over young men and women who have served our nation and risked their lives in the military. It is absolutely shameful for you to advocate otherwise.

Carl

 

Doesn't matter what their rates are. We are still under a BK contract. It is not a raise. It is barely COLA. Hey.. you are satisfied with the way things are, you have made that crystal clear. Many are not. I'm glad things are good for you...

 

Ever see the picture of the 3 monkeys... one with hands over ears... one with hands over eyes.... one with hands over mouth? The fourth monkey, not shown.. has one hand out.. palm up. HE is the ALPA monkey.

 

It doesn't matter what RJ pilots do to try and undermine this effort. Delta pilots will either win this back through the leverage we have against management, or we won't. If we lose, RJ pilots grow. If we win, we have returned what was ours. Stop trying to conflate this issue with your dream of a back door entry to the Delta seniority list. The two have NOTHING to do with each other.

As stated earlier, we've already done plenty. We've helped them become qualified. If their background checks are clean, they can compete with everyone else. We've already done plenty!

Carl

 

I hope I don't give anyone in management a heart attack, but those pilots are flying Delta passengers every day. Unless Delta management takes the rather cynical view that killing passengers in groups of 50,70, or 76 is okay, but not in groups of 124, 150, etc. then they have already come to acknowledgment that these pilots are good enough to fly our passengers.

When we merged, there were pilots at NW that failed the DL interview process. There were pilots at DL that failed the NW interview process. Big deal. Management certainly got over that hurdle, they may just have to suck up a little more.