Delta Pilots Association
02-05-2014, 09:18 AM
#9021
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 593
Originally Posted by Vikz09
We went from 15% to 10% as a percentage that's a 33% reduction. Sure Alpa's massages it to sound like only 5% but in reality we gave back a third or 33%. Now for real numbers. If next year the company makes 3 billion which sounds like it is a real possibility this "little 5%" reduction In profit sharing will cost the pilot group 125 million in lost profit sharing. Those are big numbers that were a concession.
Negotiator Notepad 12-11 spells it out quite clearly and even provides a chart on profit sharing.
Under your hypothetical $3B profit next year, profit sharing for pilots would go from $166.3M to $122.5 compared to the JCBA profit sharing plan. OTOH, C2012 pilot payroll will have increased by 16.2% or $324M more in pay than the JCBA next year.
Q3 Can you provide some examples of how the profit sharing math works out?
A3 The profit sharing for the entire employee group is being reduced from 15% to 10% of the first $2.5B of pre-tax income. The pilot group’s share of that payout is roughly one-third, or 5% (1/3 of 15%) under the old formula and 3.33% (1/3 of 10%) under the TA.
Here is how the math works out:
Under today’s profit sharing plan, should Delta have a pre-tax income of $2.5B, the 15% payout would yield $375M for all eligible employees. Of that, the pilot group would share roughly one third, or $125M. Under the TA, that amount will be reduced to $83M, with the remaining $42M having already been converted into additional pay rates that are received upfront and throughout the year.
02-05-2014, 09:23 AM
#9022
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 593
Originally Posted by johnso29
It's your responsibility to decide whether you're adequately rested or not. It always has been. Stop trying to push your decisions onto someone else. If you didn't receive your rest opportunity, then make the call to the company. I know the stance of your ATL reps, as do you. They never agreed with the individuals you mentioned. So while you continue to attempt to make an issue out of this, it's already known that this isn't an issue.
Q-67. Who determines if a flightcrew member has received an 8 consecutive-hour sleep opportunity?
A-67. Only the flightcrew member can make this determination because of the many variables involved.
02-05-2014, 09:45 AM
#9023
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by Reroute
Correct. The ALPA FAR 117 Guide states:
Q-67. Who determines if a flightcrew member has received an 8 consecutive-hour sleep opportunity?
A-67. Only the flightcrew member can make this determination because of the many variables involved.
Q-67. Who determines if a flightcrew member has received an 8 consecutive-hour sleep opportunity?
A-67. Only the flightcrew member can make this determination because of the many variables involved.
If a flight crew member determines for himself that exactly 8 hours behind the door is sufficient, is he legal?
Or let me ask a similar question... If I decide that 300 knots below 10,000' over the U.S. Is sufficient, have I violated any FAR?
02-05-2014, 09:48 AM
#9024
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by johnso29
It's your responsibility to decide whether you're adequately rested or not. It always has been. Stop trying to push your decisions onto someone else. If you didn't receive your rest opportunity, then make the call to the company. I know the stance of your ATL reps, as do you. They never agreed with the individuals you mentioned. So while you continue to attempt to make an issue out of this, it's already known that this isn't an issue.
No we don't. We don't know that it was way more. You can only guess or assume that it was. And the statement by ALPA was not dishonesty or incompetence. Just because you believe that we should have received more doesn't make it a reality. You can continue to shout from the rooftops that we should have the buying power of C2K again, but based on the rest of the industry and our peers rates your numbers are way out of range. Pattern bargaining has ALWAYS paved the way. It will take time to get the buying power back. Your belief that DPA will somehow be better or do it faster is nothing more than hope for change. Nothing more than a gamble. And one that I'm not willing to take.
No we don't. We don't know that it was way more. You can only guess or assume that it was. And the statement by ALPA was not dishonesty or incompetence. Just because you believe that we should have received more doesn't make it a reality. You can continue to shout from the rooftops that we should have the buying power of C2K again, but based on the rest of the industry and our peers rates your numbers are way out of range. Pattern bargaining has ALWAYS paved the way. It will take time to get the buying power back. Your belief that DPA will somehow be better or do it faster is nothing more than hope for change. Nothing more than a gamble. And one that I'm not willing to take.
02-05-2014, 10:21 AM
#9025
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
Or let me ask a similar question... If I decide that 300 knots below 10,000' over the U.S. Is sufficient, have I violated any FAR?
I think some of this is stemming from what the signature page says. You are certifying that you have gotten the proper rest and are otherwise ready to conduct a flight. IDK though... I'm mainly lurking on this stuff and trying to figure it out myself....
02-05-2014, 10:43 AM
#9026
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by tsquare
If you use captain's authority and think you can logically defend it, go for it. I can hardly wait to read the transcripts though.
I think some of this is stemming from what the signature page says. You are certifying that you have gotten the proper rest and are otherwise ready to conduct a flight. IDK though... I'm mainly lurking on this stuff and trying to figure it out myself....
I think some of this is stemming from what the signature page says. You are certifying that you have gotten the proper rest and are otherwise ready to conduct a flight. IDK though... I'm mainly lurking on this stuff and trying to figure it out myself....
With the 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep opportunity specified in FAR 117, it's not even a matter of using Captain's authority and justifying it with some sort of logic. It's cut and dried. You must , per the FAR, have an opportunity to get 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep. Exactly 8 hours behind the door does not give any human being the opportunity for 8 hours of sleep. And we've got at least the chairman of the scheduling committee and one SLC Captain rep (that I know of) telling guys otherwise. Do you see the problem?
02-05-2014, 11:04 AM
#9027
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by johnso29
And who gave up 33% of profit sharing? Where are those numbers from?
But use the same measurement in opposition to DALPA's sales job, and voila! it's now an invalid data point.
02-05-2014, 11:11 AM
#9028
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by johnso29
So 15%-10%=33%? You're going to need to provide a better explanation than that.
Perhaps you should run for the negotiating committee. Elections are in March. I truly admire your tenacity, and hope to see your name on the ballot. This may come across as sarcastic, but it isn't. Please. Do it. Make the change.
Perhaps you should run for the negotiating committee. Elections are in March. I truly admire your tenacity, and hope to see your name on the ballot. This may come across as sarcastic, but it isn't. Please. Do it. Make the change.
You are hurting ALPA and not helping it by spinning stuff like this.
The math is very simple. We gave up something we didn't have to give up in C2012. It costed me around 6000 dollars in the check coming on Feb 14.
02-05-2014, 11:29 AM
#9030
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
Okay (and this question is for Johnso too)...
If a flight crew member determines for himself that exactly 8 hours behind the door is sufficient, is he legal?
Or let me ask a similar question... If I decide that 300 knots below 10,000' over the U.S. Is sufficient, have I violated any FAR?
If a flight crew member determines for himself that exactly 8 hours behind the door is sufficient, is he legal?
Or let me ask a similar question... If I decide that 300 knots below 10,000' over the U.S. Is sufficient, have I violated any FAR?
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