The AirTran Pilots' Windfall and SLI
01-17-2011 | 07:53 PM
#371
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From: 767er Captain
Bwi,
I get the feeling that this is going to be a hard pill for you to swallow, but to an arbitrator and the rest of the world, you are not a Southwest pilot, you are a 737 pilot.
Take the time to think about it.
With that in mind, how are you different from the Air Tran guys & gals?
I get the feeling that this is going to be a hard pill for you to swallow, but to an arbitrator and the rest of the world, you are not a Southwest pilot, you are a 737 pilot.
Take the time to think about it.
With that in mind, how are you different from the Air Tran guys & gals?
01-17-2011 | 07:56 PM
#372
Gets Weekends Off
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From: 765-A
The hardest pill for him to swallow will be the one where he learns that not only what you say above, but the fact that he is merely a 737 First Officer and will not be able to remove a captain of an AT 737 from his seat, even though that captain is not making the same money as captains at SWA.
01-17-2011 | 08:41 PM
#373
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From: VEOP Retired! 7ER A was last position
Guess it's time for another post.
With that warped sense of expected outcomes, all mid level FOs should quit their jobs immediately to go work for Virgin America and pray for a merger in three years time.
As delerious as you think I am, I think all the more of your ilk. Pilots should be able to make rational decisions, not try to play career advancement lottery. Applying relative seniority with two seniority lists with such different career expectations is ludicrous. NWA/DAL went relative since the expectations were similar. US/AWA went relative (to a degree) since the arbitrator thought the carriers had similar career expectations. That one's been hell because the US pilots significantly disagreed with the arbitrator's assessment.
The next year or two will be interesting--but don't expect SWA pilots to lie down and beg for relative seniority. As they say in old westerns, "Them there are fighting words!"
With that warped sense of expected outcomes, all mid level FOs should quit their jobs immediately to go work for Virgin America and pray for a merger in three years time.
As delerious as you think I am, I think all the more of your ilk. Pilots should be able to make rational decisions, not try to play career advancement lottery. Applying relative seniority with two seniority lists with such different career expectations is ludicrous. NWA/DAL went relative since the expectations were similar. US/AWA went relative (to a degree) since the arbitrator thought the carriers had similar career expectations. That one's been hell because the US pilots significantly disagreed with the arbitrator's assessment.
The next year or two will be interesting--but don't expect SWA pilots to lie down and beg for relative seniority. As they say in old westerns, "Them there are fighting words!"
Career Expectations: SWA Pilot- 737 Capt Airtran Pilot- 737 Capt
Now tell me (or more importantly, the arbitors) what the "such different career expectations" are for these pilots??? hint- TODAY'S payrates don't really count for a long CAREER.
01-17-2011 | 09:16 PM
#374
gets time off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,515
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The hardest pill for him to swallow will be the one where he learns that not only what you say above, but the fact that he is merely a 737 First Officer and will not be able to remove a captain of an AT 737 from his seat, even though that captain is not making the same money as captains at SWA.
That CA isnt making as much as the SWA FO's. Just thought I would make that clear. We will just have to wait and see what happens no sense in losing sleep over it now. It is funny how the trannies are thrilled but the SWA pilots not so...I wonder why that would be?
01-18-2011 | 04:17 AM
#375
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From: 767er Captain
01-18-2011 | 05:14 AM
#376
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Joined: Aug 2009
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From: 737
To me, this forum is like a seesaw of public opinion. My goal is to ensure the "relative seniority" position goes verbally unopposed by a silent opposition. I expect that both sidess have very firm opinions and I won't change the other side. Just want them to know that the other side is just as firm and won't be rolling over. Plus, there's a little gremlin in me that enjoys striking a chord every now and then.
01-18-2011 | 05:18 AM
#377
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From: Flying the SEC
I'm for whatever my merger committee is for. To that end, I've done as they requested and not proposed anything on line to be used by the opposing merger committee in the SLI process--other that to propose using integration by W-2 which is anathema to AAI pilots just as much as relative seniority is to SWA pilots.
To me, this forum is like a seesaw of public opinion. My goal is to ensure the "relative seniority" position goes verbally unopposed by a silent opposition. I expect that both sidess have very firm opinions and I won't change the other side. Just want them to know that the other side is just as firm and won't be rolling over. Plus, there's a little gremlin in me that enjoys striking a chord every now and then.
To me, this forum is like a seesaw of public opinion. My goal is to ensure the "relative seniority" position goes verbally unopposed by a silent opposition. I expect that both sidess have very firm opinions and I won't change the other side. Just want them to know that the other side is just as firm and won't be rolling over. Plus, there's a little gremlin in me that enjoys striking a chord every now and then.
01-18-2011 | 06:26 AM
#378
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Because there is a big jump in pay and job security. I'll just throw that out there (even though the question was rhetorical), with the caveat that those kind of things have mattered very little in any previous SLI.
01-18-2011 | 06:27 AM
#379
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Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Permanent Right
BWI,
What's wrong with relative seniority? Two profitable companies flying essentially the same equipment. With relative seniority, nothing changes seniority wise for anyone and everyone gets the benefits of the bigger Southwest. If it wasn't a good deal I don't think Gary Kelly would have done it. BTW, has anyone read any reason by Wall Street that it isn't a good combination? Speaking of Wall Street, did anyone notice who the number one airline was in 2010 (per DOT stats) in a recent WSJ article? Hint....it starts with an "A".
(I know SWA gets paid more, but as it's been said, pay comes and goes. I remember in 2000, Delta guys were complaining about SWA dragging the whole industry down with their low pay rates.) Back to my original question, I don't see how relative seniority helps or hurts anyone. Seems to provide a level playing field to me.
What's wrong with relative seniority? Two profitable companies flying essentially the same equipment. With relative seniority, nothing changes seniority wise for anyone and everyone gets the benefits of the bigger Southwest. If it wasn't a good deal I don't think Gary Kelly would have done it. BTW, has anyone read any reason by Wall Street that it isn't a good combination? Speaking of Wall Street, did anyone notice who the number one airline was in 2010 (per DOT stats) in a recent WSJ article? Hint....it starts with an "A".
(I know SWA gets paid more, but as it's been said, pay comes and goes. I remember in 2000, Delta guys were complaining about SWA dragging the whole industry down with their low pay rates.) Back to my original question, I don't see how relative seniority helps or hurts anyone. Seems to provide a level playing field to me.
01-18-2011 | 06:42 AM
#380
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From: VEOP Retired! 7ER A was last position
I'm for whatever my merger committee is for. To that end, I've done as they requested and not proposed anything on line to be used by the opposing merger committee in the SLI process--other that to propose using integration by W-2 which is anathema to AAI pilots just as much as relative seniority is to SWA pilots.
To me, this forum is like a seesaw of public opinion. My goal is to ensure the "relative seniority" position goes verbally unopposed by a silent opposition. I expect that both sidess have very firm opinions and I won't change the other side. Just want them to know that the other side is just as firm and won't be rolling over. Plus, there's a little gremlin in me that enjoys striking a chord every now and then.
To me, this forum is like a seesaw of public opinion. My goal is to ensure the "relative seniority" position goes verbally unopposed by a silent opposition. I expect that both sidess have very firm opinions and I won't change the other side. Just want them to know that the other side is just as firm and won't be rolling over. Plus, there's a little gremlin in me that enjoys striking a chord every now and then.
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