scambo1

Jesse;

I'm with you on this and am surprised there are not more comments in the same vein. I am willing to accept the (high end of the) lower proposed rates with:

401k raised to the 415C limit 49K company paid.
6.5 hour minimum day. (etc)
Scope recapture.
More stuff here.

We have had so much taken from us, payrates are just a small part of the next contract.

LandGreen2

From Webster online:

RES.TO.RA.TION
noun \ˌres-tə-ˈrā-shən\
Definition of RESTORATION
1
: an act of restoring or the condition of being restored: as a : a bringing back to a former position or condition :

Superpilot92

this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

sinca3

Tha company wants profit sharing as a form of compensation, so why not tie our profit sharing to raises? First increase the profit sharing we get (I´m embarrassed to tell people what my PS check was....yes I´m glad I got it but I want more). So increase our amount and decrease the revenue/earnings DAL has to show for us to get it. Now if the company doesn´t show a profit the COLA raises get increased by a nice big %. This is another encouraging factor for managment to run a good PROFITABLE company, we get raises one way or the other and they get to keep there beloved profit sharing.

vprMatrix

I've posted this before but a four year contract with an initial 20% bump in the 2012 PWA rates would put the 73N right at SWA rates. Following that with three 6% bumps would put the 2016 pay rates dead on the 2004 pay rates (obviously not adjusted for inflation).

This should absolutely be the minimum acceptable raise.

-vpr

Carl Spackler

Agreed. We have got to rid ourselves completely of the management inspired "me too problem." It's not real! Management only uses it as a tool of propaganda. A "me too" is management's problem - NOT OURS!!

Carl

Sink r8

And steal DAL M88 Driver's thunder? You're heartless.

Sink r8

That's what's interesting about this discussion: even though some of us say we need to be paid in workrules first, I don't really figure the accompanying change in payrates at less than 20% intial, and 5% annually thereafter in addition to contract repair. The 5% will likely be a mere COLA, and I think I'm probably being way too lenient suggesting a 20% change would do the trick. IOW, what's being contemplated is fairly timid. Probably practical and workeable, if the "below the radar" incentives are adequate, but still nothing exceptional.

That's why I like what ftb is doing, because it attempts to give perspective to these numbers.

Sink r8

True enough but I would add that to the extent management (not us) has a me-too problem, understanding their problem can give us leverage to negotiate items that are not visible to the other groups, and suit our purposes as well. Certainly suits my philosophy to get more without sharing with the IRS, which has a the strongest "me-three" clause of all.

gloopy

Yep. That Bolshevik "me too" nonsense is completely irrelevant. Why don't we "me too" the percentage cuts including the percentage in retirement benefit reductions, adjust it all for inflation and apply that to the other groups? If we did that would all the class envy groups suddenly be wowed by that exact same logic they latch onto that would then prove they are insanely overpaid and need a massive paycut to achieve the "pilot parity" that so many want but have no clue as to what it means?

Whatever raise we get day one, it will be equal to or less than the cuts previously imposed adjusted for inflation (and probably not adjusted for inflation as well) especially when you include all the other things besides payrates that have been cut. So if we get a XX% "raise" on day one, just tell the Bolsheviks that we recieved a XX% restoration to apply towards our previous cuts but are still below the pre cut levels.

They can then compare the other group's pre cut levels to their current levels and I think it would be easy to prove that even after our "big raise" we are still farther below our pre BK past than any other group because pilots took the deepest cuts, by far, than anyone. A 50% cut requires a 100% increase to restore, PLUS the compounded inflationary headwind (and inflation DOES include food, fuel/energy...if it doesn't, try paying previously lower prices at the pump/grocery store today and see how fast you get laughed at and then arrested for theft if you don't immediately fix it).

So we can do the "me too" dance all night long. But its going to be danced under the disco ball of context on the dancefloor of perspective. No matter how large a "raise" we will get, it will be less of a perentage towards our restoration than any other group. We should have zero tolerance for such insane, illogical and unfair attempts to manage our expectations and to any extent that such intellectual bafoonery is directed at us (agressively or passively, directly or indirectly) it needs to immediately bouce back hard with the truth.