RAH/F9 et al, Single Carrier Status Announced
04-08-2011, 10:54 AM
#51
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
RAH cheated APA after they lost to APA. Thats how this got started. So a judge just called them out on it when it comes to a question put in front of them.
Why in the world would we not think that another question put in front of them won't end in the same result? It's a single carrier and always has been and therefore they are in violation of DALPA's scope contract. Judges are only going to rule on the question asked, they just need to be asked again with the precedent now set that it's a single carrier.
As I said elsewhere, all roads lead to Rome no matter whether Bedford has a sign in front of one entrance that claims it's Albuquerque. It's Rome. It was proven once it can be proven again.
Why in the world would we not think that another question put in front of them won't end in the same result? It's a single carrier and always has been and therefore they are in violation of DALPA's scope contract. Judges are only going to rule on the question asked, they just need to be asked again with the precedent now set that it's a single carrier.
As I said elsewhere, all roads lead to Rome no matter whether Bedford has a sign in front of one entrance that claims it's Albuquerque. It's Rome. It was proven once it can be proven again.
ALPA is about their growth...not ours.
Carl
04-08-2011, 10:59 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: 767 CA
Posts: 411
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
It probably would end in the same result...and that would hurt RAH. ALPA wants to lure RAH into the ALPA fold. ALPA cannot be seen as hurting RAH's growth.
ALPA is about their growth...not ours.
Carl
ALPA is about their growth...not ours.
Carl
04-08-2011, 11:45 AM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 7ERB
Posts: 2,039
Originally Posted by 5ontheglide
With the exception of the pre-merger top 200 pilots at RAH, the vast majority of us would love to see DALPA grieve the snot out of these events!!! Take back the outsourcing of your and our future jobs. Unfortunately, as has been stated at length, the horses are well out of the barn and the STS has effectively changed nothing with the reality of the RAH system.
This is the system that BB has made his ridiculous growth and profits on all along. It's funny what we've all known for many years, the general pop is just now realizing. CHQ, S5 and RW has always been one list funneling profits straight to RAH! I don't know how many times I've explained that to JS'ers and others who've asked.
This is where BB shows everyone the rabbit in his hat and takes a bow knowing that its too late for the magic show to be canceled.
DAH!
This is the system that BB has made his ridiculous growth and profits on all along. It's funny what we've all known for many years, the general pop is just now realizing. CHQ, S5 and RW has always been one list funneling profits straight to RAH! I don't know how many times I've explained that to JS'ers and others who've asked.
This is where BB shows everyone the rabbit in his hat and takes a bow knowing that its too late for the magic show to be canceled.
DAH!
How can we stop the outsourcing of your job, at mainline? Its not easy, and it will take a lot of work. Unity amongst your ranks is the first way , but the most important way that is a sure fire way to stop outsourcing is, IMPROVE YOUR PAY AND WORK RULES make your contract Jetblue or better. Once you do this, there will be no reason to outsource, the competitive advantage is lost. An international Union should advocate and enforce this step, unless they are in bed with the Managers.
The number one reason to outsource is: SAVE THE COMPANY MONEY. Most Republic pilots and Regional pilots fly their aircraft at a discount, so they can build experience and move on.
Because of this Mainline jobs are vaporizing.
TEN
Last edited by TenYearsGone; 04-08-2011 at 12:14 PM.
04-08-2011, 12:18 PM
#57
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by TenYearsGone
Excellent post. Even DAL mangers are for outsourcing. So its easy to say Mr. Bedford (Sp), the lawyers and DAL managers are in this together. Why not, lets funnel the profits and line up our pockets.
How can we stop the outsourcing of your job, at mainline? Its not easy, and it will take a lot of work. Unity amongst your ranks is the first way , but the most important way that is a sure fire way to stop outsourcing is, IMPROVE YOUR PAY AND WORK RULES make your contract Jetblue or better. Once you do this, there will be no reason to outsource, the competitive advantage is lost. An international Union should advocate and enforce this step, unless they are in bed with the Managers.
The number one reason to outsource is: SAVE THE COMPANY MONEY. Republic pilots and Regional pilots fly their aircraft at a discount.
Because of this Mainline jobs are vaporizing.
TEN
How can we stop the outsourcing of your job, at mainline? Its not easy, and it will take a lot of work. Unity amongst your ranks is the first way , but the most important way that is a sure fire way to stop outsourcing is, IMPROVE YOUR PAY AND WORK RULES make your contract Jetblue or better. Once you do this, there will be no reason to outsource, the competitive advantage is lost. An international Union should advocate and enforce this step, unless they are in bed with the Managers.
The number one reason to outsource is: SAVE THE COMPANY MONEY. Republic pilots and Regional pilots fly their aircraft at a discount.
Because of this Mainline jobs are vaporizing.
TEN
One of the many ways to combat this on our side is get the candle burning at both ends by burning down the top of scope in the size of the jets and number while simple economics burns the bottom. Ideally, you'd saddle the powers that be with nothing but old 50 seat RJs that they don't want.
You'd think funding your competition would cite issues at mainline managements but the BODs or powers that be are too focused on short term gains.
04-08-2011, 01:46 PM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: E-170/175 FO
Posts: 165
Originally Posted by Kellwolf
I've honestly been shocked that United is perfectly okay subsidizing a direct competitor in DEN through RAH.
04-09-2011, 05:29 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 790
Boiler up gets it.. the contract language is much harder to bend in favor of labor versus the employees. Look at the judges they found when they reduced the salaries / benefits and killed retirements in post Sep 11 days through Ch. 11 bankrupcies.
Besides, say that DL decides to cancel all the shuttle america flying because of scope. According to the contract with RAH they will have to buy all those airplanes from RAH.That is a big ticket purchase item.. Even if that was the intention, do you all think that those airplanes will be flown by major pilots?
Not when Hulas is salivating all over them.. So all that money spent to fight this grievance in the arbitrator doesn't win you any thing.. Not ALPA, not ALPO,not Teamsters, not APA will be willing to spend money on this..
The cat was out of the bag with Comair operating very first CRJ100..
Besides, say that DL decides to cancel all the shuttle america flying because of scope. According to the contract with RAH they will have to buy all those airplanes from RAH.That is a big ticket purchase item.. Even if that was the intention, do you all think that those airplanes will be flown by major pilots?
Not when Hulas is salivating all over them.. So all that money spent to fight this grievance in the arbitrator doesn't win you any thing.. Not ALPA, not ALPO,not Teamsters, not APA will be willing to spend money on this..
The cat was out of the bag with Comair operating very first CRJ100..
04-09-2011, 09:34 AM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 624
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
My question for you F9 guys is what does this mean for you? One certificate? Transition from one Certificate to the other by bid period or bid posting? If that is the case that definition may have far reaching implications?
S5 remains a FFD only certificate.
CHQ flies primarily FFD, with some branded operations. As the 50 seaters are removed from FFD, they are either leased overseas or adopted by the branded flying.
RAH flies both FFD and Branded.
F9 flies only branded.
What does this decision mean for us?
We know the following;
1. FAPA is no longer going to be the certified bargaining unit.
2. The IMSL will be implemented at some point in the near future.
3. Without another transaction (merger with another carrier), all current Frontier FO's have no future at this airline. Some may upgrade and remain junior captains forever. The rest are doomed to a life in the right seat.
4. Its officially time to quit b1tching. Either man up and contribute or leave.
What we don't know....
1. How BB and Co will allow moving between certificates. Eischen's award does not speak to this as it was outside of his authority.
2. How BB and Co will negotiate with the IBT. There is a mountain of negotiating that needs to be accomplished in a short period of time.
3. What happens on the 61st day after the certification of a bargaining unit. Eischen says we need to have an agreement. What if we (they?) don't?
4. What will the IBT's new CBA look like? They are negotiating as we speak. 3000 sets of eyes are now watching.
5. Will I vomit all over myself when I attempt to put on an IBT lanyard?
Sorry about the last one, I just don't know if I should laugh or cry or just keep doing both.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
