Yeah, but does he get to wear a hat to work?

 

SW @ 6 yr upgrade? SW neighbor last year said it was at the 9 yr mark, and expected to be 12 yrs three years later(2013?).

 

I said those managers pull in 50,000+. Many like Scambo's example pull in much more especially if they have years of experience in the industry. But dude....you're missing the POINT. We are paid similar to fast food managers....and I am not talking about a regional....we are talking about Delta mainline. That is unacceptable.

As to your second question, I very well know how much it costs to run a pizza store. I had to work at one during my flight instructing days to supplement my meager income. During a span of four years I worked as a delivery driver, cook and finally as a manager. I guarantee you will make more than a DAL heavy FO if you run it well.

If you really want to compare, lets compare us to similar professionals...like medical doctors. An average surgeon makes around $300,000 in the US. Yes...a doctor goes through years of schooling. Well...a major airline pilot does not waltz into his job in a few years either. It is either..college degree, commissioned officer, military flying, major OR college degree, flight instructor, 135 freight, regional, major airline. Both being a medical doctor and a major airline pilot requires years of work. Now, a doctor screws up, most often than not, he can cover it up. It usually does not even make the press. Do you know how many doctors show up drunk for work? It is not even press-worthy.

Now imagine we screw up and have a mainline airliner crash. The press world-wide will have it as their headline news for weeks and months to come. Every bit of our lives, education, training will be scrutanized and publicized. It is a huge responsibility. Infinitely more responsibility than a Hardees fast food manager.

Now, how do we 'get it back'?

Lets look at why doctors are paid much higher than us? Not because they are more valuable. It is because they have one of the most powerful lobbies in the US. Much more powerful than ALPA. The AMA controls the number of med. school seats in the US and they are very good at controlling supply through various means.

ALPA on the other hand is fighting with us to screw up our only chance to control supply. Following the Colgan crash, congress passed H.R. 5900 which requires 1500 hrs to an airline cockpit. ALPA is campaigning to bring that down to 500 hrs effectively increasing supply by 3 times. ALPA is the only pilots' union siding with the regional airline management in this issue. All other independent pilots' unions including Sully is siding with the 1500 hr rule.

We need drastic changes in union leadership to negotiate a successful 2012 contract. Currently, the leadership in ALPA has no vision. If ALPA can change from within...good. If not, it is time for DPA. Send in your dang DPA cards. To the very least lets light a fire under ALPA a$$.

 

It's right at 10 years right now and that's with 1/2 of the current seniority list having been hired since then. With their growth quickly coming to a halt and the addition of the young airtran group, upgrades if hired now will be close to 20 years.

 

I don't get it. I collected the following posts from others in this thread.

"Same with SWA. I would have gladly tried to get a 73 type but not for the few weeks of the window being open only to hire a 100 or so out of the 10000 resumes they received"

So after making it though four years of college, flight training and having the good fortune to get 1000 hours of part 121 PIC and three Captain recommendations at SWA your odds are still only a one percent chance of getting hired?

"There are McDonalds managers making $50000+ per year. With deductions, taxes etc, they net $4000 per month. If I own/run a pizza store in a decent street corner, I will make more money than what I make flying 'heavies' across the Atlantic for Delta."

Theses are basically the same kind of posts I make in a different part of this forum and get roasted for it yet I come over here to the big boys forum and some of my detractors are saying basically the same things as I.

I however would suggest working for the Post Office over McDonalds.

Skyhigh

 

I flew with a Captain about 6 years ago who owns 6 McDonalds (and still complained about his paycheck!). He said he paid his managers $50K. BTW, a "typical" McD's pulls in around $1M per month, according to him.

 

Yeah, now there's an outfit with a bright future...

I check my mail a couple of times per week, and use 10 or 20 stamps per year. The USPS is going the way of the Pony Express and the telegram.

 

The post office is one of the few things "guaranteed" by the US constitution.

 

The guy who owns our McDonalds started out at 16 flipping burgers. He did not even finish high school and was promoted to the point where he was offered his own store as an owner. He is a very wealthy man today. (dead but wealthy)

I do not think the point here is to get line pilots to switch to fast food but moreover as an exercise in the opportunity cost of an aviation career. If a new pilot were to start out today in college by the time they graduate they could have as much as 300K invested in education and flight training for a profession that is a long way off from getting hired by a major airline that proposes to pay slightly more than a mailman.

Not worth it at all from a financial perspective. A mailman has nothing invested in their careers at the time of hire and yet they can reach DAL FO wages when their benefits are considered. An interview and a few years of good service at a fast food place can produce a similar income. Something is very wrong here.

Skyhigh

 

I think that Delta and most other airlines are laying the ground work for a European style pilot academy if things get ugly with the pilot group. Airlines need to continue to cut wages and benefits. I do not think that they will let themselves get onto the loosing side of the negotiations if a real pilot shortage does materialize. They would rather start up their own pilot factories and pay them dirt.

Skyhigh