...but I've never worked in a union shop before (Just retired after 24 years in the Air Force).

Does ALPA only charge partial dues for the lack of "full representation" during the first year or do the new hires pay the full rate? One should get what they pay for, not pay for what they don't get, shouldn't they?

Dave

 

Generally speaking: Unions are not required to provide representation for probationary members (generally the first year). As such first year/probationary members are not required to pay dues. They are also usually not permitted to vote with the membership on various items that will come forward (such as contracts, LOAs, etc).

That said, an MEC may choose to extend representation or voting rights (or other benefits that good-standing, active members have) to probationary members. It often varies on a case by case basis. Some MECs will fight for their probationary members. Others won't. It ofthen depends on what they are fighting for (big picture).

 

I see. Aside from the "gentle urging" of your fellow pilots , there is no mandatory requirement to join the union in your probationary year (if at all). Does the same apply if the airline is a closed shop (mandatory union membership)? Would a probationary pilot get representation then?

 

Dave,

In that first year you are on probation, you are pretty much at the mercy of the company. If they want to fire you, they can, and there isn't a whole lot the union can do about it. If you keep your nose clean, and perform like an average employee, you will not have any problems.

When I was at Delta, we didn't pay ALPA dues during our probationary year, but we did join ALPA. We received our union cards that said "apprentice" instead of "active" during that first year. We had no voting rights, and had extremely limited representation rights.

At the start of year 2, we became active members with all rights afforded to ALPA members, and our paychecks started getting docked the 1.95% dues charge. If you had declined to join the union in your probationary year, you would not be an ALPA member, but your check would still be docked the same 1.95%....you had no say in the matter (closed shop scenario). In this situation, you would be foolish to NOT be a member of the union, and have the right to vote on all issues affecting the membership.

Bottom line....if you are considering joining a company like UAL, DAL, etc...that has ALPA representation, you would be crazy not to join the union. As a member, you will have a means for your voice to be heard, a chance to vote on the issues, and the people that represent you. As a non member paying the same dues, you will have no voice. Good luck.

 

A probationary pilot does receive representation from a union in the form of pay, work rules, and other areas of the CBA.

What most new pilots mean by "representation" is do they receive council during a disciplinary hearing. It can vary by airline, but in most cases the answer is no.

 

I would too.

 

Primarily the pay issue, yes. The unions (primarily ALPA) have treated the regionals (the sector of the industry I am currently involved in) like red-headed step children for so long that you now have guys flying what are basically mainline aircraft (CRJ-900s, E190s, etc) for chump change ($19/hr in the case of SlyWest, and not much better at some of the union shops). Same goes for UPS, CAL and others. Do you think the airlines really care about having the ability to fire at will during that first year? My guess is no. But what they do care about is having you on the payroll for at least a year working for peanuts. They laugh all the way to the bank and we stand there with a sh!t toothed grin.

Then there is also the representation and voting rights. Where you have seen probationary pilots helped out by ALPA, I have seen ALPA throw probationary pilots to the wolves and walk away, saying "best of luck" over their shoulder. I'm sure a lot depends on the company, the pilot and the company's relationship with the union but still. I'd pay a lot more than 1.95% to have someone looking out for my interests when its my a$$ on the line. As far as voting goes, I as a first year pilot feel I have more to gain or lose from a contract vote than a guy who is leaving for CAL or SWA or retiring in a year. Sure, some guys would make the argument that the pilots who have been around longer are older and wiser, which is true to some extent. But it just burns me up that some schlub I have never met who doesn't know a thing about me gets to decide under what conditions and for what compensation I will be working for the next 4 years or so regardless of the fact that he won't be there in a year. How about instead of the senior pilots treating the new guys like they're diseased, lets try some education. Make it a point to educate the younger guys you fly with rather than spout off about whats "wrong with the young guys" and how those of us brand new to the industry have ruined it (i just got to the party but apparently I already clogged the toilet, ate all the snacks and left a turd in the punchbowl? Explain that one to me ). But what do I know, I'm just a probationary pilot.

 

True, and well said. One more lesson to learn if you are new industry. I have no experience with The Teamsters or IPA, or any other pilot union. But, in ALOT of cases, ALPA is only as good as your local MEC.

At my previous job, our MEC took very little crap, if any, from the company. All this while the place is crumbling like crazy. And no, us and our MEC agreeing to get bent over would not have helped save the airline. I haven't been my current jon long enought to judge.

 

Careful with this. A scab is a scab. A tie is a tie. They do not alway match up. I know many non-scabs ****ed off at ALPA that don't wear their pins>>>

At UAL there are still no slick ties (unless they are scabs). The guys who are fed up with ALPA just put a screw above the ALPA pin

 

Not to slam your post DJD but what are you insinuating here. Our full-term strikers were out of a job for 3 years back in the '80's. Not sure how much time any UAL Pilot spent on the street during any of their strikes but I bet it wasn't even close to that.