Really? IF true, unethical and disgusting.

Folks, here you have the anatomy of a well planned smear campaign. You have sensationalistic, tabloid trash that is worthy of Karl Rove or Rupert Murdoch's best efforts. Lets break down how you make a great smear campaign as evidenced above:

First, The Manager, Carl, 80Knots, OccupyRestSeat, and every other Delta pilot is paid by Delta Air Lines. EVERY ONE. So The Manager starts off with this bolded statement:

as if this is some secret revelation that is scandal worthy and new. Every Delta Pilot is paid by Delta Air Lines, and regardless of whether or not a pilot is covered by 24J, they will ALWAYS BE PAID BY DELTA UNTIL THE COMPANY FOLDS. The only question is whether or not, the union takes your dues money and gives it back to Delta at the end of the month.

So somehow, recklessly wasting your dues money by forcing your union to pay back all the flight pay loss money has become a rallying cry for an independent union. Yes, our plan is to waste your dues money when we don't have to. Why, because your pay will come from Delta Air Lines instead of Delta Air Lines. Awesome plan.

So let's have another shocking headline:

The Sun rose in the East this morning and tonight it will set in the West. Oh the horrors.

That was just the warmup, now we get to the real sleaze ball masterpiece:

In the sleaze ball propaganda world that is called separation and deniability. Not confirmed, see that allows him to walk away from his sleazy attack with no harm no foul. It is not confirmed, but I will throw out the mud anyway, see what sticks.

DPA claims, this is separation. See how The Manager doesn't claim but someone else does. In this case it's not just another person but a vague entity. Who is DPA, what phone number do I call to talk to DPA to confirm this?

See, I could type "Some people say that The Manager steals candy from children." So I am not making an accusation, it is just 'some people". I don't have to offer any proof, any details, any names or dates, I just get a free pass to throw that out there and I never have to take responsibility for it. For some people the mud will stick to The Manager and he gets tarred just the same as if I made a real accusation that I could be held accountable for. (Note: he does not steal candy from children.)

More masterful work. Why "debit cards" and not "credit cards." Everyone knows that an organization the size of ALPA uses corporate credit cards for purchasing and cost accounting so "credit cards" doesn't sound menacing enough. No, they use "debit cards" because that conjures up images of cash payments with no accountability. I mean who really records all the times they buy a cup of coffee at Starbucks with a debit card. Who could ever track where these mysterious debit cards are being used?

He also talks about them being handed out to "reps" sure, let's pick a large group so we can never nail down a specific allegation, let's just pick "reps" because if your rep denies it, then it could be another rep. You set it up so each pilot would have to call each rep to confirm whether or not they got this "debit card." (Note: this whole "debit card" smear is purely made up fiction, never existed, never will)

Excellent walkback to the deniability stage. There is a reason why hearsay is not allowed in evidence in court rooms, but hey, when you are making a sleaze ball attack, why not? See, The Manager doesn't have to take responsibility for this sleaze, it is just hearsay.

He starts with FACT all bolded as if that proves it. Here is quick fact. C2K pay for a 767 Captain was $268 per hour. At the time he posted this a 767 Captain's pay was $182 per hour. Average pay hours during C2K was 83 hours per pilot. ALPA uses 87 hours for committee members and 92 for the Negotiating Committee which is the only committee that are designated pilots.

C2K: 268 x 83 = $22,244
Average Committee guy : 182 x 87 = $15,834
Average Delta line holder : 182 x 87 = $15,834
Negotiating Committee : 182 x 92 = $16,744

If you count the per diem of $1,000 per month you do not get to C2K pay, no matter how you slice it. It is not a fact it is pure bunk. Plus, does anyone think that working more hours after bankruptcy is a pay raise? Please, someone tell me that the DPA doesn't think we get a pay raise when we work more hours.

It seems to me that DPA has morphed from being an alternative union concept to a sleazy ALPA attack machine. They have this website with no accountability and no ethics and just toss out sleazy trash to attack pilots that work for ALPA.

Many, many years ago, I talked to my LEC rep about this issue. He was a fairly junior, reserve, F/O at the time, I was a mid line holder. He would typically bid a 'blind' move up and get a couple really nasty 4 day trips, which would result in an 85 hr. line, vs. 70 for straight reserve.

THEN...he would drop BOTH the 4 day trips by touching them with 5 days of "ALPA" work....from home. I only know this because I started checking his schedule, after my wife asked me, "Why are you always gone, and he's always at home...and you are wayyy senior to him?"

So one day when I ran into him I asked, "What's up with you and all the trip drops, and 85 hour lines?? How do you claim to represent me, if YOU never have to do MY job and at the same time, you are getting 85hrs. pay, while I'm working my ass off for only 75??"

He said, and I think this attitude is still too prevelant today with some reps, 20 years later:

"It's Win Win! Maybe you, or another pilot, can pick up one of those trips on a greenslip..." :rolleyes:

Talk about losing touch with reality! This guy should have been making 70 a month sitting short call, instead he's making 85 and never flying.

If it were up to me, LEC reps would only get what ever the ALV is every month, and no $1,000 override for a lawn crew, every month.

AND there would be term limits for EVERYONE, Committee chairs especially. 1 term, go back and fly the line and suffer like every one you are supposed to "Represent" and they would all have to fly half a month, every month, and if they were junior, have to sit reserve as well....but that's just me.

Here's their answer, "If it's such a good deal, why didn't YOU run for office?"

And they have a point. It's not a job I would want, even with all the extra money and time at home. So I really can't complain about them and their evil ways, but that's never stopped me! :D I have had some very good friends who were LEC reps, and I know they spend a lot of time on the phone, late at night sometimes, and have to deal with a lot of "Personal Issues" our pilots bring to them.

Listening to their horror stories has pretty much confirmed that I don't want their job, and they can't be representing you in the CPO if they are out flying a 6 day trip. What irks me is that some guys get into an office and then Never Leave.

I think we should turn over all the office guys (Com. Chair especially) at least every 2 years. Until someone steps up to run against and replace them, it's not going to happen. The Committee Chairs are appointed, not elected, and they never leave. That needs to stop.

But since I don't want to do that line of work, I guess I am part of the problem. Once the kids are out of the house, I think I will run for office, that's 2 years off so my wife can still talk me out of it...

Huh?

I'm not following. When a DPA supporter makes some kind of schizophrenic claim, it is obviously on the fringe and does nothing for their cause except maybe harm it....When DALPA, exspecially the MEC Chair, sends out a letter, it must be read between the lines. Why? The only reason I can come up with is that he is playing both sides of the field.

Why are our MEC Chairs letters so different from reading Wendy Morse's or the APA Master Chairs?

Where do you find the LM-2 report? thanks

I look forward to the day you DO run for office. (I'll vote for you as LEC chairman of the new MCO base in a heartbeat) :D In some respects I agree that term limits might be a good thing. Then again, we will run out of pilots that can/will run for office pretty quickly I would think. I still believe that there are a lot of good guys at the LEC/MEC that are doing pretty good work. I think that a lot of this stuff gets blown way way out of proportion by the unhappy few. By and large, I would venture a guess that most pilots are satisfied with the representation they are getting. That is just my opinion. Maybe you are right about the committee chairs and their never ending appointment though. Have you tried submitting a resolution to change that? Maybe YOU can get the ball rolling in that manner. I have no clue as to what it would take to get that sort of thing changed. I do know that nothing will happen on an "anonymous" forum other than to garner the support of those that obviously already support that cause. I dunno.. just spitballing here.. Back to Portlandia.. Happy New Year

Thank you for your support! Now, would you like funding for a Bridge to nowhere in your district?? ;^)

I think there is a percentage of people who are going to whine, no matter what or who is elected, or what gets changed. In my years of volunteering on various committees (No B Scale, Strike, Sched, PBS, etc.) what I have found is, the Delta pilot group, as a group, is pretty lazy and uninvolved. When I once asked a MEC Chairman why that was, he said, "What did you think that rocking chair was for?" And I think he's right. Most Pilots are lazy. I don't know how a few of us slipped through the cracks! That's why I don't think the DPA will have any more success than DALPA. The Silent Majority that always votes Yes is just too lazy to show up and scream NO!


You stuck in PDX? Anything open today? I do miss that place, one of my favorites.

Timbo, I deleted my response - it's just not worth it.

I just made my New Year's resolution, which is to sign off this board. It has grown tiresome and redundant. This used to be a place where the "Latest and Greatest" was heard; but now it seems to be nothing more than an anti-ALPA ranting club with the same dozen or so guys constantly whining.

Enjoy and Sayonara, but I've got better things to do with my life.

How long has the Communications Chair been talking down to us? Seems like 10 years, but it may only be 5...he would be the first one I would replace, and I would have done it two years ago.

On the Term Limit thing? You simply make it a Requirement of being a Delta Pilot, just like paying dues is required under Agency Shop. Hold a Lottery, pull 4 names for each slot, and have an election. If you win, you must serve, but in 2 years you are Free again, having done your part. I think that would motivate the silent majority to wake up and pay attention to what they are actaully voting on!

You'll be back...no one can escape the pull! :D
Just When I Thought I Was Out, They Pull Me Back In! SCENE - The Godfather: Part 3 MOVIE (1990) - HD - YouTube