I imagine the pilots that voted out the 30, 44, 50, and 70 seat planes thought the same thing.

 

Don't worry to much about RJ's being flown by delta pilots at mainline. This will happen probably in the next 24 months. What is going to happen? Well, I do believe that Delta management will just purchase a regional pilot group and welcome them to Delta. Seat lock them in the RJ for a few years and then all RJ's will be flown by Delta pilots. Problem solved....

 

Interesting first post.

 

You obviously have very little knowledge of the actual history and contents of scope clauses at the major airlines.....

 

I guess so. I've only been in the industry for 10 years, and in those 10 years I've seen nothing but growth at the regionals. All of those previous contracts had excuses, being an economic downturn and all. But the excuses for this latest round of outsourcing just don't make sense to a lowly RJ pilot like myself.

 

Not sure 76 seaters will grow - A No vote may stop this. True, the three for one would allow more 76 seaters but when you consider 70 seaters will have to parked (255 CAP on 70 +76 seaters) the large RJs will not really grow with a NO vote.

If we sold Scope what did we get for it? Scope is too complicated to accurately describe in a bumper sticker. Bad decisions go back decades and the final straw was in BK - I wouldn't really call that selling it.

ALPA and DALPA both have made many poor Scope descions - this is very obvious in hindsight. but I am not sure it was obvious back when they were making the decisions. 70 Seat Scope at DAL actually goes back to 1986. Before the RJ, Scope strictly limited seats and made no distinction between jets and Props. Along came the RJ and we have been playing catch up ever since.

PM me your E-mail address and I will send you a 5 page history of Scope at DAL written a few years ago be a C-44 guy.

Scoop

 

Really? Not that we ever voted on 30 seat Scope, but if we did and the Pilots only allowed more 30 seaters, but no larger aircraft - what would be the Scope limit Now? Hint - 30 seats.

Repeat for 44, 50, and 70.

As a junior guy, 2000 hire, Scope is by far the most important issue to me. Problem is, our Scope already sucks so just saying No more RJs doesn't really work.

Scoop

 

Why are we trading 50 seat RJ's for 76 seat RJ's?? The 50 seat RJ's are toast! They are dead dinosaurs. We are fools if we think we are gaining by the "accellerated retirement" of 50 seats RJ's. They have been, and will continue to retire those, no matter wheather we ratify this TA or not.

Come on guys, a ~50% increase in 76 seat RJ's?

What happened to holding the line? NO MORE RJ's!

PTC

 

Hmm, what airline never furloughs and always makes a profit. How about not flying anything with less then a 100 seats because IT DOESN'T MAKE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I believe this has already been pointed out, but realistically what we are "trading" with regards to small jet scope in this TA is 50 seaters for 70 seaters. The company can already acquire more 76 seat JETS (not to mention unlimited 76 seat turboprops) than this TA allows. I completely agree with the notion that it will not be cost productive to convert the 70s to 76s in the short run, but make no mistake, it will happen eventually (say 6-9 years?) To me the benefits of reducing the allowable 76 seat count, capping the TOTAL outsourced count, and tying in currently nonexistent restrictions on the REAL future threats of geared turbofans and turboprops outweigh the negatives of allowing the company to up gauge their 50 seaters to 70 seaters at a 2 for 1 ratio. This combined with the mbh/dbh ratio (which apparently works quite well as a natural limiter in the case of United's 70 seaters) are pretty well thought out limits considering what we have now.

The issue I do have w the small jet scope is the enforcement of the ratios. There don't appear to be provisions for concrete penalties for failure to comply, other than a grievance ruled on by an arbitrator. If the ratios could be assured, I personally wouldnt give a damn if we allowed unlimited 76 seat jets. If the company wanted to buy 1000 of them and average 3 or so hours a day in them, they still would have to use Delta mainline pilots in far greater proportion than they are now.

All of the current RJ drivers pleading for DAL pilots to stop the outsourcing, be careful what you wish for. If this TA passes close to 1500 of your jobs will cease to exist. Some number of them will move to mainline, but i doubt it will be all.