According to the guys in the cpo, the reason we hired last time was they offered too many long term leaves. As the economy shifted they could not get furlough bypass pilots or pilots off of leave. As a result they needed to hire to staff the summer block hr plan.

I was told this after I enquirered about a three year loa and was told the latest they would grant was the end of 2012 or March of 2013.

 

Too expensive. How would that be created? Pilots from mainline, but what about the FA's and mechanics? What about the rampers? Would Delta have to purchase new aircraft? What about the sims?

The problem is we already know that regional feed is very cheap, and it's getting cheaper because management continues to lower the payout for each new regional contract. United does it too. Colgan had to give up the Dash-8-400s because United wanted to lower the payments, and Colgan couldn't afford it. COLGAN! So, Republic took them. Same with the Delta regionals. And any management team and board of directors will tell you profits allow the airline to keep flying. It would be just too costly, and very complex.

 

You really are mad. Are you the bottom guy at DL? Sounds like it. Go to a roadshow, please.

 

DALPA offered. DAL said no. They unfortunately get to decide such things. So it is certainly not that simple. While we would all like that. DAL for this round wont have it. SHortage etc in the near future may make the costs very neutral to bring it back. Id love to fly the CRJ900 again.

 

CAL's furlough was a result of the age 60 change, it's quite a stretch to suggest that scope had anything to do with it. They were hiring for attrition, and it didn't happen. And yet, somehow, miraculously, we continue to shrink the pilot group in spite of our hiring. If the 'growth' we've seen due to outsourcing is the result of previous scope sales, you've just given me yet another example why we shouldn't allow more large RJ's.

Do you even hear yourself? Are you actually trying to imply that growing large RJ fleets is a good thing for the pilots at the mainline? Tell that to the guys who have been stuck on the bottom of our list for 10+ years.

 

Do you even hear yourself?

'Regional feed is very cheap and getting cheaper'. 'Mainline is too expensive'.

Of course managment is going to keep taking more of the flying from YOU (mainline) and giving it to the regionals. They are just taking it a little bit at a time (whenever you allow it) and you hardly even miss it.

The trouble is that you have given away (sold actually) any reason for Delta to even have a domestic mainline operation (and hence a job for most of you). A little at a time you have given it all to the regionals. If you keep giving it away, all domestic flying (and quite alot of international) will be done by the regionals.

It is ruining the profession of being an airline pilot. Most of the jobs are low paying and poor work rules (compared to the 'too expensive' mainline jobs). A large percentage of current regional pilots will be lifetime career regional pilots, simply because that it where the jobs are (because of your vote). And those that do make it to a major, will be stagnated at the bottom (because most of the jobs and growth are at the 'cheaper' regional).

 

Bill,

Slowplay's own number was that its 33% more expensive at mainline. Looking at the pay rates, most of that is from crew cost and the increase would only put the crew cost inline with other mainline aircraft. Delta already handles DCI at most (maybe all) of the Delta stations and has a subsidiary for handling DCI at small outstations much cheaper than Delta could do and apparently cheaper than the DCI carriers since we eliminated most of the DCI staffed stations. Delta covers every single cost to operate these aircraft plus enough extra for the DCI carriers to make a profit (usually).

I encourage you to look into the cost associated with CRJ-900, -1000 E-175, -190 aircraft vs the 717, 737-700, 319, and MD88.

While is is cheaper to outsource it is not too expensive to in-source the 76 seat aircraft. If for some reason we ever outsourced the a320 flying it also we become to expensive for us to do as DCI would easily undercut us by 33% on it as well.

 

Cold Whiskey

You are confusing cause and effect. It wasn't mainline votes that created the RJ business; it was technology (50-seat planes powered by efficient engines) and the presence of cheap labor that created the business model. RJ existed first, the the RJ business. You want to blame somebody--go with BBD, Embraer and the engine designers plus the thousands of people willing to work for RJ wages. If you are a RJ pilot, the mirror, perhaps.

GF

 

Exactly. A plane does not have to be cheapest to operate at mainline in order to make it work at mainline. Every plane is cheaper at the cut throat bottom feeding labor busters than at mainline. That doesn't mean anything for a 90 seat "RJ" or a 300 seat 777.

 

How many pilots did CAL hire after 2005? That number would be about 25% of their pilot group. They furloughed some but go and talk to their pilots and find out how understaffed they were before and after the furlough. You might be surprised at what they say.

Ask yourself this when it comes to scope. How big were the majors 20 - 15 - 10 years ago vs. the regionals and then compare that to today? You still gonna make the argument that outsourcing is good?

Here's a thought to your question but maybe the airline with the weakest scope undercut those other airlines. Ever think of that? Maybe they just had poor management that couldn't run the airline and it really didn't have much to do with scope at all?