Dal came to us!!!
06-07-2012, 08:08 AM
#71
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 793
Originally Posted by tsquare
Not even close. Reigning in scope... for you... and getting a pretty nice, industry leading pay bump.. again.. for you.
Originally Posted by tsquare
You won't know fear unless this gets voted down.
No is not a strategy, it is foolish
The strategy was supposed to be prepare for an industry leading contract--NOW, not in three years (MAYBE). But it appears all management had to do was invite our NC to the table a little early and that strategy went right out the window right behind the survey results. The mantra "this has never been achieved so early" is getting a little old. DALPA already patting itself on the back just requires that I fly up to 99 hours a month with fewer X days in the summer and give up profit sharing to fund DC contributions.
We were told RA wanted a contract taken care of sooner, not later, but now we're told that isn't important any longer....if we turn this TA down it'll be years before we get anything. So I guess RA & Co. work on a strategy of spitefulness....no, I don't buy it.
06-07-2012, 08:15 AM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,357
Originally Posted by Jesse
You're always thinking about others. Thanks for all you do.
Keep at it, T, you have me quivering now to the point I'm thinking of voting YES.
The strategy was supposed to be prepare for an industry leading contract--NOW, not in three years (MAYBE). But it appears all management had to do was invite our NC to the table a little early and that strategy went right out the window right behind the survey results. The mantra "this has never been achieved so early" is getting a little old. DALPA already patting itself on the back just requires that I fly up to 99 hours a month with fewer X days in the summer and give up profit sharing to fund DC contributions.
We were told RA wanted a contract taken care of sooner, not later, but now we're told that isn't important any longer....if we turn this TA down it'll be years before we get anything. So I guess RA & Co. work on a strategy of spitefulness....no, I don't buy it.
Keep at it, T, you have me quivering now to the point I'm thinking of voting YES.
The strategy was supposed to be prepare for an industry leading contract--NOW, not in three years (MAYBE). But it appears all management had to do was invite our NC to the table a little early and that strategy went right out the window right behind the survey results. The mantra "this has never been achieved so early" is getting a little old. DALPA already patting itself on the back just requires that I fly up to 99 hours a month with fewer X days in the summer and give up profit sharing to fund DC contributions.
We were told RA wanted a contract taken care of sooner, not later, but now we're told that isn't important any longer....if we turn this TA down it'll be years before we get anything. So I guess RA & Co. work on a strategy of spitefulness....no, I don't buy it.
06-07-2012, 11:15 AM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Originally Posted by tsquare
Sure, the numbers aren't what we all wanted. Sure, they aren't what we deserve... but they are what they are....
These ARE industry leading rates....
We are being offered industry leading rates and industry leading scope. (whether or not one chooses to believe that or not, it is a fact. The numbers do not lie.)
These ARE industry leading rates....
We are being offered industry leading rates and industry leading scope. (whether or not one chooses to believe that or not, it is a fact. The numbers do not lie.)
Please show how these are industry leading. Break out the numbers that don't lie in rates particularly.
Thanks.
06-07-2012, 11:35 AM
#74
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by TheManager
Please show how these are industry leading. Break out the numbers that don't lie in rates particularly.
Thanks.
Thanks.
06-07-2012, 11:44 AM
#75
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by TheManager
Please show how these are industry leading. Break out the numbers that don't lie in rates particularly.
Thanks.
Thanks.
06-07-2012, 12:32 PM
#76
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by Blutarski
The title of this thread sums it up perfectly....DAL came to us!!! It's just my opinion, but I believe (and so do many others) that this TA was reached so early because RA has a plan B, C, and D in his back pocket. They are prepared for us to vote NO, so they can come back to the table with plan B. I don't think mgmt wants this thing to drag on any longer than we do.
Also, has anyone else heard anything about this TA being approved by the negotiating commitee before the proposed pay rates were presented to the MEC? Is that even possible?
Also, has anyone else heard anything about this TA being approved by the negotiating commitee before the proposed pay rates were presented to the MEC? Is that even possible?
Ask you rep this question and see how they answer:
If you were shown the pay rates prior to the entire deal being TAed would you have told them it was not good enough (does not meet our direction) or would you have told them to TA the entire deals?
I was told there was no redirection given on the TA after the original direction two months prior.
The debate post TA was whether or not to go back for more before voting to send this to memrat. They voted to send it to the pilots because we had a TA.
06-07-2012, 12:35 PM
#77
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by tsquare
Well, I know that Bauer will post his money chasing little picture again, but the loss of time will be the factor that hurts more than anything. Sure, the numbers aren't what we all wanted. Sure, they aren't what we deserve... but they are what they are. Mullis wrote another good paper on this subject on the DALPA forums that lays it out very clearly. These ARE industry leading rates. Saying no to them guarantees that we will fall farther and farther behind wrt inflation. GUARANTEES it. All the no guys are hoping that we will do better. Think about the logic for a minute. We are being offered industry leading rates and industry leading scope. (whether or not one chooses to believe that or not, it is a fact. The numbers do not lie.) Why would management come back in any kind of hurry to offer more when they have us under a never ending bankruptcy contract? And the current contract is so full of scope holes that if I were a running back and it was the defensive line, I would look like Walter Payton. Everybody is focused on the 76 seaters. Got news for ya guys.. they are gonna come whether we vote yes or no. The question you have to ask is would you rather have 70 more, or 102 more. I really don't care either way, because I have my captain seat. Bauer and the others with agendas are the ones that need to grasp reality. Read Mullis' paper on TVM. It is something I have been talking about for 3 years now, and it still isn't sinking in with some people. We don't have a DB anymore... we cannot wait until we turn 60 to start making real money and getting that into our accounts to grow. By then it is too late. The line of thinking that I read here is lineal, and we need to think about how money compounds, and how to take advantage as soon as possible. I read about so many what ifs that the phrase "analysis to paralysis" comes head long into my mind. Guys are so worried about what if that they are losing sight of the big picture. This is an industry leading TA. Period. Vote it down, and it will be just another TA, and time will be gone.
The best part is that this is a 3 year deal.
And I am still waiting for someone to show me who will trump this deal before we are in the next negotiations. Anyone? Bueller?
The best part is that this is a 3 year deal.
And I am still waiting for someone to show me who will trump this deal before we are in the next negotiations. Anyone? Bueller?
06-07-2012, 12:44 PM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
I suppose it's industry leading if you pass their 2012 pay rates(which are under negotiation) in 2015.
edit: I wanted to add this. Pay is important. I understand the TVof$ just fine. That is why I believe it needs to be adjusted as I want to put away as much as possible for retirement now, not 3 years from now.
We have the leverage, now.
But just as important as pay are the other loop holes riddled through the TA that need to be fixed.
If we don't use the leverage currently available to us, it will be difficult to impossible to change these items 3+ years from now.
Last edited by TheManager; 06-07-2012 at 12:54 PM.
06-07-2012, 12:49 PM
#79
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by TheManager
The pay doesn't even pass SWA in 2015.
06-07-2012, 01:03 PM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
Well, crap. Did we at least pass their rigs, vacation pay, per diem, scope, or premium pay?
Nope. But don't you understand?
AMR is in 1113!
UCAL is way behind and still trying to get a JCBA.
USAirways. Need I say more.
Those are our peers, not SWA or any other pilot group that makes more or has better benefits.
We are leading the way.
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