tsquare

I am also looking at the rest of the industry, not cherry picking SWA or UPS. That is conveniently being left out of ALL these arguments. We do not live in a vacuum, I don't care how much the company makes.. But feel free to ignore those facts if it makes your position more palatable. It certainly doesn't make it any more relevant. Sorry for the bluntness. 70 additional 76 seaters (instead of 102) are very small potatoes in the big scheme we have unfolding before us.

acl65pilot

Not using the rates we have. We must control the market to control the economics. That means first getting the pilot on the seniority list in to the seats. I do not care what certificate or financial agreement it's under as long as our pilots operate it.


Air Canada flies the e175 with mainline pilots

80ktsClamp

All of those carriers have management teams that are squandering their carriers. Ours is intent on leading the industry it seems. We are on a different playing field than most.

If you can swallow this contract, that is your call. I value myself and our pilot group more than that.

tsquare

Well, maybe the real question we need to ax ourselves is whether that has already occurred in OUR case. I believe it effectively has. Anybody think we will really be allowed to strike? I certainly don't, and I don't care what King Carl thinks about that... it ain't gonna happen.

Now whether the gubbamint inserts itself into other private sector unions such as the Auto Workers Union is another thing. In a time of war if they are building tanks, they very well might, but when they are building mini-vans, probably not so much. YMMV (get it? YMMV??)

tsquare

But the thing is, we are not leading it... yet. when that debt is below $10B, we very well might be.

I'm obviously not gonna change your mind, and I resent the intimation that I do not value myself and this group. So let's just call it a wrap, and you vote how you see fit. I couldn't care less either way. Be prepared for the results though.

Have a fine Delta day.

finis72

An honorable goal but I'm sure SKW will let pilots from another company fly there jets. By the way; how many UCAL pilots and DL pilots will SKW use? Sorry ACL but I see evolution in the DCI industry and it doesn't include mainline pilots flying their jets.

Bucking Bar

Have not been to a road show yet, but my question is this.

"If this agreement passes (assuming 1% capacity reduction) do the 717's end up getting staffed by surpluses which are created by the work rules and productivity changes ?"

I think the answer to this question is - yes. While this agreement might not cause furloughs, it might continue the trend of Fall Qtr. displacements. If so, then the pay cut more than cancels the pay gain.

acl65pilot

That is fine, but there are many ways to shore up flying for our pilots. Making DCI more profitable for our gains is the one we are employing currently. The problem with this is we will constantly be fighting a scope battle whereas a long term solution would allow us to focus our efforts and capital on other items in the long term.

finis72

Bar, the company will have to replace the retirements from the widebodies that this TA will give us plus start manning up for the 717's. I know we have a surplus of pilots in the fall but there will still be upward movement and DL is planning on hiring in 2013. You want to see downward movement ? vote no. That is not a scare tactic, it's a fact I will bet lot's of money on. A personal but very informed opinion.

acl65pilot

In the sort term yes we can staff the jets. The first few will be with dc-9 drivers (unless you want to argue the md-90's take those pilots even though they were coming on line when the 9's were staying) and then the next few will be staffed with the surpluses from work rule efficiencies. After that will will need to hire unless the overall fleet count of other mainline jets decreases.


We could see massive hiring in the next five years but it's not codified in this agreement. This agreement "may" allow Dal to grow if they choose. Its part of the preferred pay, or at least it's inferred. Not a given. That is also why we have leverage to fix this deal because even the fix is cheaper than plan B. argue this is false if you want but a fix the price of a 777 and zero cost protection changes are a lot clues per than not being able to go after opportunities that will present themselves because you do not have access to cheap credit.