It's so simple
06-18-2012 | 07:13 PM
#154
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
Likes: 0
From: Poodle Whisperer
The merger with DL saved that from being taken to completion.
06-18-2012 | 07:22 PM
#155
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,785
Likes: 0
Please feel free to show me where I have misspoken.
Here is a VERY clear case in which you were completely incorrect. And you are a moderator? Pretty hight standards here too, eh?
March 17, 2010
Continental
Airlines
Captain Jay Pierce
CAL MEC Chairman,
Air Line Pilots Association, International
3808A World Houston Parkway
Houston, TX 77032
Re: Company Proposal for a Successor Pilot Collective Bargaining Agreement ("CBA")
In a recent press interview you gave (Ted Reed, "Continental Has Deadline for Pilot Contract," TheStreet.com, February 18, 2010) and in your own MEC News (see, "Chairman's Update," February 5, 2010) you indicated that Delta Airlines provides a template for Continental. You have said that our situations are the same and that Delta's current pilot working agreement (the "PWA") provided the "gains and improvements" necessary to get and keep pilot support. Indeed, reviewing your remarks, one could easily conclude that the Delta PWA is the best legacy airline contract in the industry.
Because the Delta PWA is a post-merger, post-concessionary pilot agreement at a legacy carriert hat is also the world's largest airline, it will likely set the pilot contract standard for years to come. A review of ALPA's December 9, 2009 opening economic proposal to the Company demonstrates that there are a large number of areas within that proposal that are either based on or expressly reference the Delta PWA. As a result, we reviewed the PWA and concluded that Continental can operate under an effectively identical agreement. Thus, we are prepared promptly to enter into a successor collective bargaining with ALPA that is substantially identical to the terms and conditions of the Delta PWA.
In reaching this conclusion, we have also carefully considered the alternative. We have weighed the fact that it has taken ALPA two and a half years to compile and propose an exceptionally complex and comprehensive opening economic proposal that nonetheless still has a number of substantive items open. Despite its complexity, that proposal remains only conceptual, lacking specific contractual language. We have also considered the considerable period of time it would take to negotiate and craft specific contractual language that is fair to the pilots and fair to the Company. Even if we had no significant disagreements over terms of that opening proposal (a highly unlikely circumstance given the excessive increase in costs it contains), negotiating and refining ALPA's current proposal into to a final executable agreement is a task that would clearly take a very long time.
The Company believes that the Continental pilots should not have to wait until negotiators plow through hundreds of complex, and as yet unrefined, proposals. Furthermore, given the economic conditions and the constraints on the Company's ability to dramatically increase costs, we would be unlikely to reach an agreement that is richer than the current Delta pilot working agreement that you and your ALPA colleagues have cited as the model for ALPA and the Company.
Therefore, Continental proposes the following:
Effective as of January 1, 2010, replace the current CAL Pilot CBA with the terms
of the October 30, 2008 Delta PWA, with only 2 exceptions*:
(1) Add $1 to each of the hourly pay rates set forth in the pay tables on pages 3-3
through 3-12 of the PWA; and
(2) Eliminate the provision allowing ALPA to appoint a representative to the
Company's Board of Directors.
In all other substantive respects the Company proposes adopting the Delta PWA as
the successor Continental pilot CBA.
* Of course, it will be necessary to modify or delete references that are inapplicable to the Company (such as provisions regarding former Northwest pilots) and make such other changes to conform the current Delta PWA to the unique circumstances of the Company's operations or as may be required for logic, consistency or common sense.
In order to achieve a timely successor CBA, the Company proposes an expedited negotiation process for an implementation agreement that would address issues arising from adopting the PWA as discussed above and transitioning from the current CAL CBA to the terms of the Delta PWA. A proposed agreement for that negotiation process is attached.
The Company believes that this proposal meets the needs of both the Continental pilots and the Company in a straightforward and expedited way. We hope that the CAL MEC will carefully consider this proposal with the seriousness and good faith in which it is made.
Sincerely
Mike Bonds
Senior Vice-President
Human Resources & Labor Relations
Last edited by Flytolive; 06-18-2012 at 07:39 PM.
06-18-2012 | 07:30 PM
#156
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,518
Likes: 0
From: B737 CA
flytolive decidedly takes that round....
Edit: (regarding the UCH proposal to copy the DL TA).
Edit: (regarding the UCH proposal to copy the DL TA).
06-19-2012 | 06:41 AM
#158
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,642
Likes: 0
From: right for a long, long time
2) The UCAL method would have placed the 757 fleet in the LNB category, NOT NOT with the 767 pay (WB). (ref. a current UCAL pilot from my old regional that I spoke with last thurs.)
I'll ask Flytolive and jungle the same questions:
Why are you meddling in DAL business when your own houses are in such disarray? Can either of you do something to raise the bar at your own airlines?
Last edited by shiznit; 06-19-2012 at 06:45 AM. Reason: Added question
06-19-2012 | 08:40 AM
#159
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,518
Likes: 0
From: B737 CA
Funny you should ask! Not only have we been saddled with a scheise contract for the last five years -and negotiated by and voted on by nwa pilots with no cps guys getting a vote - but they then negotiated a LOA with a no strike clause for our first Section 6! And then DALPA kicked us out of their MEC. Looks like you guys don't particularly want us raising the bar -much better to shut up and keeping working hard down on massas plantation, amirite?
06-19-2012 | 09:32 AM
#160
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
Likes: 0
From: B757/767
Johnso,
Please feel free to show me where I have misspoken.
Here is a VERY clear case in which you were completely incorrect. And you are a moderator? Pretty hight standards here too, eh?
March 17, 2010
Continental
Airlines
Captain Jay Pierce
CAL MEC Chairman,
Air Line Pilots Association, International
3808A World Houston Parkway
Houston, TX 77032
Re: Company Proposal for a Successor Pilot Collective Bargaining Agreement ("CBA")
In a recent press interview you gave (Ted Reed, "Continental Has Deadline for Pilot Contract," TheStreet.com, February 18, 2010) and in your own MEC News (see, "Chairman's Update," February 5, 2010) you indicated that Delta Airlines provides a template for Continental. You have said that our situations are the same and that Delta's current pilot working agreement (the "PWA") provided the "gains and improvements" necessary to get and keep pilot support. Indeed, reviewing your remarks, one could easily conclude that the Delta PWA is the best legacy airline contract in the industry.
Because the Delta PWA is a post-merger, post-concessionary pilot agreement at a legacy carriert hat is also the world's largest airline, it will likely set the pilot contract standard for years to come. A review of ALPA's December 9, 2009 opening economic proposal to the Company demonstrates that there are a large number of areas within that proposal that are either based on or expressly reference the Delta PWA. As a result, we reviewed the PWA and concluded that Continental can operate under an effectively identical agreement. Thus, we are prepared promptly to enter into a successor collective bargaining with ALPA that is substantially identical to the terms and conditions of the Delta PWA.
In reaching this conclusion, we have also carefully considered the alternative. We have weighed the fact that it has taken ALPA two and a half years to compile and propose an exceptionally complex and comprehensive opening economic proposal that nonetheless still has a number of substantive items open. Despite its complexity, that proposal remains only conceptual, lacking specific contractual language. We have also considered the considerable period of time it would take to negotiate and craft specific contractual language that is fair to the pilots and fair to the Company. Even if we had no significant disagreements over terms of that opening proposal (a highly unlikely circumstance given the excessive increase in costs it contains), negotiating and refining ALPA's current proposal into to a final executable agreement is a task that would clearly take a very long time.
The Company believes that the Continental pilots should not have to wait until negotiators plow through hundreds of complex, and as yet unrefined, proposals. Furthermore, given the economic conditions and the constraints on the Company's ability to dramatically increase costs, we would be unlikely to reach an agreement that is richer than the current Delta pilot working agreement that you and your ALPA colleagues have cited as the model for ALPA and the Company.
Therefore, Continental proposes the following:
Effective as of January 1, 2010, replace the current CAL Pilot CBA with the terms
of the October 30, 2008 Delta PWA, with only 2 exceptions*:
(1) Add $1 to each of the hourly pay rates set forth in the pay tables on pages 3-3
through 3-12 of the PWA; and
(2) Eliminate the provision allowing ALPA to appoint a representative to the
Company's Board of Directors.
In all other substantive respects the Company proposes adopting the Delta PWA as
the successor Continental pilot CBA.
* Of course, it will be necessary to modify or delete references that are inapplicable to the Company (such as provisions regarding former Northwest pilots) and make such other changes to conform the current Delta PWA to the unique circumstances of the Company's operations or as may be required for logic, consistency or common sense.
In order to achieve a timely successor CBA, the Company proposes an expedited negotiation process for an implementation agreement that would address issues arising from adopting the PWA as discussed above and transitioning from the current CAL CBA to the terms of the Delta PWA. A proposed agreement for that negotiation process is attached.
The Company believes that this proposal meets the needs of both the Continental pilots and the Company in a straightforward and expedited way. We hope that the CAL MEC will carefully consider this proposal with the seriousness and good faith in which it is made.
Sincerely
Mike Bonds
Senior Vice-President
Human Resources & Labor Relations
Please feel free to show me where I have misspoken.
Here is a VERY clear case in which you were completely incorrect. And you are a moderator? Pretty hight standards here too, eh?
March 17, 2010
Continental
Airlines
Captain Jay Pierce
CAL MEC Chairman,
Air Line Pilots Association, International
3808A World Houston Parkway
Houston, TX 77032
Re: Company Proposal for a Successor Pilot Collective Bargaining Agreement ("CBA")
In a recent press interview you gave (Ted Reed, "Continental Has Deadline for Pilot Contract," TheStreet.com, February 18, 2010) and in your own MEC News (see, "Chairman's Update," February 5, 2010) you indicated that Delta Airlines provides a template for Continental. You have said that our situations are the same and that Delta's current pilot working agreement (the "PWA") provided the "gains and improvements" necessary to get and keep pilot support. Indeed, reviewing your remarks, one could easily conclude that the Delta PWA is the best legacy airline contract in the industry.
Because the Delta PWA is a post-merger, post-concessionary pilot agreement at a legacy carriert hat is also the world's largest airline, it will likely set the pilot contract standard for years to come. A review of ALPA's December 9, 2009 opening economic proposal to the Company demonstrates that there are a large number of areas within that proposal that are either based on or expressly reference the Delta PWA. As a result, we reviewed the PWA and concluded that Continental can operate under an effectively identical agreement. Thus, we are prepared promptly to enter into a successor collective bargaining with ALPA that is substantially identical to the terms and conditions of the Delta PWA.
In reaching this conclusion, we have also carefully considered the alternative. We have weighed the fact that it has taken ALPA two and a half years to compile and propose an exceptionally complex and comprehensive opening economic proposal that nonetheless still has a number of substantive items open. Despite its complexity, that proposal remains only conceptual, lacking specific contractual language. We have also considered the considerable period of time it would take to negotiate and craft specific contractual language that is fair to the pilots and fair to the Company. Even if we had no significant disagreements over terms of that opening proposal (a highly unlikely circumstance given the excessive increase in costs it contains), negotiating and refining ALPA's current proposal into to a final executable agreement is a task that would clearly take a very long time.
The Company believes that the Continental pilots should not have to wait until negotiators plow through hundreds of complex, and as yet unrefined, proposals. Furthermore, given the economic conditions and the constraints on the Company's ability to dramatically increase costs, we would be unlikely to reach an agreement that is richer than the current Delta pilot working agreement that you and your ALPA colleagues have cited as the model for ALPA and the Company.
Therefore, Continental proposes the following:
Effective as of January 1, 2010, replace the current CAL Pilot CBA with the terms
of the October 30, 2008 Delta PWA, with only 2 exceptions*:
(1) Add $1 to each of the hourly pay rates set forth in the pay tables on pages 3-3
through 3-12 of the PWA; and
(2) Eliminate the provision allowing ALPA to appoint a representative to the
Company's Board of Directors.
In all other substantive respects the Company proposes adopting the Delta PWA as
the successor Continental pilot CBA.
* Of course, it will be necessary to modify or delete references that are inapplicable to the Company (such as provisions regarding former Northwest pilots) and make such other changes to conform the current Delta PWA to the unique circumstances of the Company's operations or as may be required for logic, consistency or common sense.
In order to achieve a timely successor CBA, the Company proposes an expedited negotiation process for an implementation agreement that would address issues arising from adopting the PWA as discussed above and transitioning from the current CAL CBA to the terms of the Delta PWA. A proposed agreement for that negotiation process is attached.
The Company believes that this proposal meets the needs of both the Continental pilots and the Company in a straightforward and expedited way. We hope that the CAL MEC will carefully consider this proposal with the seriousness and good faith in which it is made.
Sincerely
Mike Bonds
Senior Vice-President
Human Resources & Labor Relations
POINT Flytolive! Well done sir. I just sat down for lunch.
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