Retirement
11-09-2006, 09:54 PM
#51
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Boston!
Posts: 24
Skyhigh, it doesn't matter what you think. It doesn't matter if you think that pilots will never climb out of poverty. What YOU think about what OTHER people do has no relavent bearing whatsoever. YOUR priorities are YOUR priorities...Other people have THEIR Priorities...what ever they may be. Why do you feel that you have a right to tell other people what THEIR priorities need to be? If people want to pursue a "low paying" career LET THEM. It doesn't matter what YOU THINK! It's like you equate a desire to become a pilot to becoming a drug addict and thus you feel some higher calling in "saving" them. The two don't even compare. Leave people alone, man. You're thirty some odd years old and you spend hours upon hours worrying about what other people do with their lives. GET A LIFE. I've said it before and I'll say it again; whether or not people are "wrong" for pursuing aviation, IT DOESN'T CONCERN YOU. WHAT PEOPLE DO WITH THEIR LIVES IS ENTIRELY UP TO THEM.
11-09-2006, 11:45 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 614
Why shouldnt be responsible for ourselves? You all act as if we are entitled to a great life? I dont care about Social Security because I dont recieve it, I pay for it but I have never not paid for. Stop acting as if you are entitled to ever damn thing out there. Just work at whatever you do, if you like your job great, if not, find something else to do. This is forum is like an oprah show at one time with freakin tom cruise jumping on a couch, and then the next minute I see doctor phil/skyhigh telling me ways to improve my life. I understand SKYhigh that you dont want others to make YOUR mistake in life, but what I am getting from reading your thousands of posts, you sound to me like a money hungry arrogant SOB that thinks that you are owed something by everyone around you. I may not drive an ESCALADE, but I fly an aircraft that is worth a whole lot more, and that is pretty god d### cool.
11-10-2006, 04:32 AM
#53
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Honestly
bman484, sigep_nm,
I honestly don't care what you guys do. In fact I would suit me just fine if you were to not change a thing. I like having cheap airline tickets. However there are people out there who are actively interested in their futures and like to plan accordingly. If you wish to turn a blind eye towards your collective futures then have at it. Someday maybe we will watch a Frontline story on welfare case pilots and you guys could be the featured subjects.
In any case you have been warned.
SkyHigh
I honestly don't care what you guys do. In fact I would suit me just fine if you were to not change a thing. I like having cheap airline tickets. However there are people out there who are actively interested in their futures and like to plan accordingly. If you wish to turn a blind eye towards your collective futures then have at it. Someday maybe we will watch a Frontline story on welfare case pilots and you guys could be the featured subjects.
In any case you have been warned.
SkyHigh
11-10-2006, 05:37 AM
#54
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Horizon Air
Back when I was working for Horizon Air a captain burst into the ready room and declared with his hands in the air "Well that was my last flight, I am now retired". The room erupted in congratulations but his response wasn't as expected.
In place of the beaming speeches and warm remarks he disintegrated into a screaming tirade in the middle of a room full of his colleagues. As he descended into a totally deconstructed state he announced to the room how after 23 years as a pilot for Horizon Air he only had enough retirement funds to last a few years. This caught me as odd since I had flown with him only a few weeks prior and all it seemed that he could talk about was his 401K and how he had been putting away the max since they began the program.
At that moment I also recalled how on our flights he kept asking me silly questions about my former employers and how much Alaskan part 135 pilots and CFI's earn. Every time I would give him an answer his face would twist and he would turn away to stare out the window in deep thought. During a pause to catch his breath the chief pilot steamed in to the room with an entourage in tow. Congratulations he boomed and proceeded to give a glowing speech of his own. Upon completion he extended gifts of a gold leaf stick pin of pilot wings and a Horizon Air coffee mug, then off he went. After the chief pilot left the room began to disburse and the dejected pilot slumped over in a blank stare at his new mug.
I wondered what he would do. He was a good and conservative man. He was married to the same woman, had three daughters and a modest home. I am sure that he was thinking "how did I end up here"? At that moment I knew that a career at the regionals would never be able to properly fund my life goals. If your wish is to have a warm middle class life with a stay at home wife, children and all the normal costs associated with upkeep and retirement, there just isn't nearly enough as a regional pilot. After watching that Frontline episode I am not even sure if a major airline pilot even earns enough anymore.
The younger set loves to accuse me of being money hungry. I understand that they most likely don't have the expenses that I have and don't realize where life might take them. I love flying but one of my main goals was to be able to earn a better living and to have more time at home than had I not undertaken the sacrifices to get there. On that day in the ready room someone mentioned that perhaps it would be more appropriate and merciful if the chief pilot were to give out as gifts a hand carved wooden box labeled "Retirement Plan" with a cyanide pill inside.
Keep dreaming though !! Stay the course. You guys don't need any money. The joy of flight is compensation enough.
SkyHigh
In place of the beaming speeches and warm remarks he disintegrated into a screaming tirade in the middle of a room full of his colleagues. As he descended into a totally deconstructed state he announced to the room how after 23 years as a pilot for Horizon Air he only had enough retirement funds to last a few years. This caught me as odd since I had flown with him only a few weeks prior and all it seemed that he could talk about was his 401K and how he had been putting away the max since they began the program.
At that moment I also recalled how on our flights he kept asking me silly questions about my former employers and how much Alaskan part 135 pilots and CFI's earn. Every time I would give him an answer his face would twist and he would turn away to stare out the window in deep thought. During a pause to catch his breath the chief pilot steamed in to the room with an entourage in tow. Congratulations he boomed and proceeded to give a glowing speech of his own. Upon completion he extended gifts of a gold leaf stick pin of pilot wings and a Horizon Air coffee mug, then off he went. After the chief pilot left the room began to disburse and the dejected pilot slumped over in a blank stare at his new mug.
I wondered what he would do. He was a good and conservative man. He was married to the same woman, had three daughters and a modest home. I am sure that he was thinking "how did I end up here"? At that moment I knew that a career at the regionals would never be able to properly fund my life goals. If your wish is to have a warm middle class life with a stay at home wife, children and all the normal costs associated with upkeep and retirement, there just isn't nearly enough as a regional pilot. After watching that Frontline episode I am not even sure if a major airline pilot even earns enough anymore.
The younger set loves to accuse me of being money hungry. I understand that they most likely don't have the expenses that I have and don't realize where life might take them. I love flying but one of my main goals was to be able to earn a better living and to have more time at home than had I not undertaken the sacrifices to get there. On that day in the ready room someone mentioned that perhaps it would be more appropriate and merciful if the chief pilot were to give out as gifts a hand carved wooden box labeled "Retirement Plan" with a cyanide pill inside.
Keep dreaming though !! Stay the course. You guys don't need any money. The joy of flight is compensation enough.
SkyHigh
11-10-2006, 05:55 AM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 675
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Back when I was working for Horizon Air a captain burst into the ready room and declared with his hands in the air "Well that was my last flight, I am now retired". The room erupted in congratulations but his response wasn't as expected.
In place of the beaming speeches and warm remarks he disintegrated into a screaming tirade in the middle of a room full of his colleagues. As he descended into a totally deconstructed state he announced to the room how after 23 years as a pilot for Horizon Air he only had enough retirement funds to last a few years. This caught me as odd since I had flown with him only a few weeks prior and all it seemed that he could talk about was his 401K and how he had been putting away the max since they began the program.
At that moment I also recalled how on our flights he kept asking me silly questions about my former employers and how much Alaskan part 135 pilots and CFI's earn. Every time I would give him an answer his face would twist and he would turn away to stare out the window in deep thought. During a pause to catch his breath the chief pilot steamed in to the room with an entourage in tow. Congratulations he boomed and proceeded to give a glowing speech of his own. Upon completion he extended gifts of a gold leaf stick pin of pilot wings and a Horizon Air coffee mug, then off he went. After the chief pilot left the room began to disburse and the dejected pilot slumped over in a blank stare at his new mug.
I wondered what he would do. He was a good and conservative man. He was married to the same woman, had three daughters and a modest home. I am sure that he was thinking "how did I end up here"? At that moment I knew that a career at the regionals would never be able to properly fund my life goals. If your wish is to have a warm middle class life with a stay at home wife, children and all the normal costs associated with upkeep and retirement, there just isn't nearly enough as a regional pilot. After watching that Frontline episode I am not even sure if a major airline pilot even earns enough anymore.
The younger set loves to accuse me of being money hungry. I understand that they most likely don't have the expenses that I have and don't realize where life might take them. I love flying but one of my main goals was to be able to earn a better living and to have more time at home than had I not undertaken the sacrifices to get there. On that day in the ready room someone mentioned that perhaps it would be more appropriate and merciful if the chief pilot were to give out as gifts a hand carved wooden box labeled "Retirement Plan" with a cyanide pill inside.
Keep dreaming though !! Stay the course. You guys don't need any money. The joy of flight is compensation enough.
SkyHigh
In place of the beaming speeches and warm remarks he disintegrated into a screaming tirade in the middle of a room full of his colleagues. As he descended into a totally deconstructed state he announced to the room how after 23 years as a pilot for Horizon Air he only had enough retirement funds to last a few years. This caught me as odd since I had flown with him only a few weeks prior and all it seemed that he could talk about was his 401K and how he had been putting away the max since they began the program.
At that moment I also recalled how on our flights he kept asking me silly questions about my former employers and how much Alaskan part 135 pilots and CFI's earn. Every time I would give him an answer his face would twist and he would turn away to stare out the window in deep thought. During a pause to catch his breath the chief pilot steamed in to the room with an entourage in tow. Congratulations he boomed and proceeded to give a glowing speech of his own. Upon completion he extended gifts of a gold leaf stick pin of pilot wings and a Horizon Air coffee mug, then off he went. After the chief pilot left the room began to disburse and the dejected pilot slumped over in a blank stare at his new mug.
I wondered what he would do. He was a good and conservative man. He was married to the same woman, had three daughters and a modest home. I am sure that he was thinking "how did I end up here"? At that moment I knew that a career at the regionals would never be able to properly fund my life goals. If your wish is to have a warm middle class life with a stay at home wife, children and all the normal costs associated with upkeep and retirement, there just isn't nearly enough as a regional pilot. After watching that Frontline episode I am not even sure if a major airline pilot even earns enough anymore.
The younger set loves to accuse me of being money hungry. I understand that they most likely don't have the expenses that I have and don't realize where life might take them. I love flying but one of my main goals was to be able to earn a better living and to have more time at home than had I not undertaken the sacrifices to get there. On that day in the ready room someone mentioned that perhaps it would be more appropriate and merciful if the chief pilot were to give out as gifts a hand carved wooden box labeled "Retirement Plan" with a cyanide pill inside.
Keep dreaming though !! Stay the course. You guys don't need any money. The joy of flight is compensation enough.
SkyHigh
11-10-2006, 06:31 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: B767 First Officer
Posts: 160
My wife and I just watched that Frontline show, and it was very timely considering we had just gone through our yearly retirement/insurance assesment. We do it every year to make sure we're on track and covered for whatever life might throw at us.
That show is a must-see for every worker in this country. Bottom line is to start saving as early and as much as you possibly can. I started a 401k as a 25-year-old commuter captain and now as a 34yr old 737 FO, it is doing very well. I'm jealous of you guys that were smart enough to start saving at 18!
Despite what the negatrons say, even with the loss of the traditional pension here at Delta, anyone on property should be able to max out their 401k, combine that with DC plan savings and have a very nice (read: multi-million-dollar in 25-30 years) retirement. That's at a meager 7% average gain, and you should be able to do far better than that most years.
Skyhigh can compare retirements & earnings between pilots, doctors, police officers, and McDonalds workers all he wants, but I just don't see the point...there will always be a job that pays more or seems rosier. I love what I do...we all know that most other people can't say that.
That show is a must-see for every worker in this country. Bottom line is to start saving as early and as much as you possibly can. I started a 401k as a 25-year-old commuter captain and now as a 34yr old 737 FO, it is doing very well. I'm jealous of you guys that were smart enough to start saving at 18!
Despite what the negatrons say, even with the loss of the traditional pension here at Delta, anyone on property should be able to max out their 401k, combine that with DC plan savings and have a very nice (read: multi-million-dollar in 25-30 years) retirement. That's at a meager 7% average gain, and you should be able to do far better than that most years.
Skyhigh can compare retirements & earnings between pilots, doctors, police officers, and McDonalds workers all he wants, but I just don't see the point...there will always be a job that pays more or seems rosier. I love what I do...we all know that most other people can't say that.
11-10-2006, 06:39 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: WB Bunkie
Posts: 1,246
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Back when I was working for Horizon Air a captain burst into the ready room and declared with his hands in the air "Well that was my last flight, I am now retired". The room erupted in congratulations but his response wasn't as expected.
In place of the beaming speeches and warm remarks he disintegrated into a screaming tirade in the middle of a room full of his colleagues. As he descended into a totally deconstructed state he announced to the room how after 23 years as a pilot for Horizon Air he only had enough retirement funds to last a few years. This caught me as odd since I had flown with him only a few weeks prior and all it seemed that he could talk about was his 401K and how he had been putting away the max since they began the program.
At that moment I also recalled how on our flights he kept asking me silly questions about my former employers and how much Alaskan part 135 pilots and CFI's earn. Every time I would give him an answer his face would twist and he would turn away to stare out the window in deep thought. During a pause to catch his breath the chief pilot steamed in to the room with an entourage in tow. Congratulations he boomed and proceeded to give a glowing speech of his own. Upon completion he extended gifts of a gold leaf stick pin of pilot wings and a Horizon Air coffee mug, then off he went. After the chief pilot left the room began to disburse and the dejected pilot slumped over in a blank stare at his new mug.
I wondered what he would do. He was a good and conservative man. He was married to the same woman, had three daughters and a modest home. I am sure that he was thinking "how did I end up here"? At that moment I knew that a career at the regionals would never be able to properly fund my life goals. If your wish is to have a warm middle class life with a stay at home wife, children and all the normal costs associated with upkeep and retirement, there just isn't nearly enough as a regional pilot. After watching that Frontline episode I am not even sure if a major airline pilot even earns enough anymore.
The younger set loves to accuse me of being money hungry. I understand that they most likely don't have the expenses that I have and don't realize where life might take them. I love flying but one of my main goals was to be able to earn a better living and to have more time at home than had I not undertaken the sacrifices to get there. On that day in the ready room someone mentioned that perhaps it would be more appropriate and merciful if the chief pilot were to give out as gifts a hand carved wooden box labeled "Retirement Plan" with a cyanide pill inside.
Keep dreaming though !! Stay the course. You guys don't need any money. The joy of flight is compensation enough.
SkyHigh
In place of the beaming speeches and warm remarks he disintegrated into a screaming tirade in the middle of a room full of his colleagues. As he descended into a totally deconstructed state he announced to the room how after 23 years as a pilot for Horizon Air he only had enough retirement funds to last a few years. This caught me as odd since I had flown with him only a few weeks prior and all it seemed that he could talk about was his 401K and how he had been putting away the max since they began the program.
At that moment I also recalled how on our flights he kept asking me silly questions about my former employers and how much Alaskan part 135 pilots and CFI's earn. Every time I would give him an answer his face would twist and he would turn away to stare out the window in deep thought. During a pause to catch his breath the chief pilot steamed in to the room with an entourage in tow. Congratulations he boomed and proceeded to give a glowing speech of his own. Upon completion he extended gifts of a gold leaf stick pin of pilot wings and a Horizon Air coffee mug, then off he went. After the chief pilot left the room began to disburse and the dejected pilot slumped over in a blank stare at his new mug.
I wondered what he would do. He was a good and conservative man. He was married to the same woman, had three daughters and a modest home. I am sure that he was thinking "how did I end up here"? At that moment I knew that a career at the regionals would never be able to properly fund my life goals. If your wish is to have a warm middle class life with a stay at home wife, children and all the normal costs associated with upkeep and retirement, there just isn't nearly enough as a regional pilot. After watching that Frontline episode I am not even sure if a major airline pilot even earns enough anymore.
The younger set loves to accuse me of being money hungry. I understand that they most likely don't have the expenses that I have and don't realize where life might take them. I love flying but one of my main goals was to be able to earn a better living and to have more time at home than had I not undertaken the sacrifices to get there. On that day in the ready room someone mentioned that perhaps it would be more appropriate and merciful if the chief pilot were to give out as gifts a hand carved wooden box labeled "Retirement Plan" with a cyanide pill inside.
Keep dreaming though !! Stay the course. You guys don't need any money. The joy of flight is compensation enough.
SkyHigh
1. He got hired on late and therefore was only a CA for a few years and wasn't making enough while his kids were in college and wife wanted a Mercedes. In that case, what did he expect? Starting an airline career in your fourties definitely won't bring you riches. What was he doing before hand that made him so little money and left him so ill prepared? In this case his financial situation was probably his own fault.
2. He got hired at a normal time, say 30, upraded to CA around 40 at the latest and had 20 years of CA pay. There are millions of Americans who are able to live, and save for retirement, just fine at 60K to 100K a year. Maybe his wife should have gotten a job. In this scenario his financial situation was almost certainly his own doing.
Anyway you cut it, it was not Horizon's fault. Our industry gives us a better break down of what to expect for future pay than almost any other out there. We experience down turns, but what corporation doesn't? Almost everybody knows the volatility going in and should plan accordingly.
11-10-2006, 07:01 AM
#58
Proponent of Hysteria
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 3B
Posts: 1,052
Do you really need to see a Frontline TV show to figure out how to plan your financial future? Man I hope not.
If you are the type of person who figures out how to plan their life by watching a TV show, do you actually think it would take? I don't think so.
I tried to give SkyHigh the benefit of the doubt because I just happened onto his posts. I want those minutes of my life back now. I'm with fecav8r and adding the High to my ignore list.
If you are the type of person who figures out how to plan their life by watching a TV show, do you actually think it would take? I don't think so.
I tried to give SkyHigh the benefit of the doubt because I just happened onto his posts. I want those minutes of my life back now. I'm with fecav8r and adding the High to my ignore list.
11-10-2006, 08:23 AM
#59
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Savings
Originally Posted by duvie
There are two possible scenarios for this guy:
1. He got hired on late and therefore was only a CA for a few years and wasn't making enough while his kids were in college and wife wanted a Mercedes. In that case, what did he expect? Starting an airline career in your fourties definitely won't bring you riches. What was he doing before hand that made him so little money and left him so ill prepared? In this case his financial situation was probably his own fault.
2. He got hired at a normal time, say 30, upraded to CA around 40 at the latest and had 20 years of CA pay. There are millions of Americans who are able to live, and save for retirement, just fine at 60K to 100K a year. Maybe his wife should have gotten a job. In this scenario his financial situation was almost certainly his own doing.
Anyway you cut it, it was not Horizon's fault. Our industry gives us a better break down of what to expect for future pay than almost any other out there. We experience down turns, but what corporation doesn't? Almost everybody knows the volatility going in and should plan accordingly.
1. He got hired on late and therefore was only a CA for a few years and wasn't making enough while his kids were in college and wife wanted a Mercedes. In that case, what did he expect? Starting an airline career in your fourties definitely won't bring you riches. What was he doing before hand that made him so little money and left him so ill prepared? In this case his financial situation was probably his own fault.
2. He got hired at a normal time, say 30, upraded to CA around 40 at the latest and had 20 years of CA pay. There are millions of Americans who are able to live, and save for retirement, just fine at 60K to 100K a year. Maybe his wife should have gotten a job. In this scenario his financial situation was almost certainly his own doing.
Anyway you cut it, it was not Horizon's fault. Our industry gives us a better break down of what to expect for future pay than almost any other out there. We experience down turns, but what corporation doesn't? Almost everybody knows the volatility going in and should plan accordingly.
I am sure that he thought that he was doing everything right. He was saving the maximum on his 401K and had a strong belief in social security. 18% is a huge amount of ones pay check. If you earned 75K per year after taxes and retirement savings one would be left with $44,280 per year to live on. In the PDX or SEA area that is a drop in the bucket, and this is senior captain pay that we are considering. Sure it isn't Horizons fault. As pilots we allow ourselves to be fished in to a situation that isn't acceptable. What happened to this guy is a likely conclusion for most of those who intend to make a career at the regionals.
Some of the posts that the FedEx guys here have made serve as evidence to this fact. They are totally unconcerned and unfamiliar with what I am talking about. Seems to me that the dream of one day becoming an airline pilot has been reduced to the dream of one day becoming a FedEx airline plot. Everyone else seems to be sliding off the charts.
SkyHigh
11-10-2006, 10:29 AM
#60
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: The Missionary Position
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
I am sure that he thought that he was doing everything right. He was saving the maximum on his 401K and had a strong belief in social security. 18% is a huge amount of ones pay check. If you earned 75K per year after taxes and retirement savings one would be left with $44,280 per year to live on. In the PDX or SEA area that is a drop in the bucket, and this is senior captain pay that we are considering. Sure it isn't Horizons fault. As pilots we allow ourselves to be fished in to a situation that isn't acceptable. What happened to this guy is a likely conclusion for most of those who intend to make a career at the regionals.
Some of the posts that the FedEx guys here have made serve as evidence to this fact. They are totally unconcerned and unfamiliar with what I am talking about. Seems to me that the dream of one day becoming an airline pilot has been reduced to the dream of one day becoming a FedEx airline plot. Everyone else seems to be sliding off the charts.
SkyHigh
Some of the posts that the FedEx guys here have made serve as evidence to this fact. They are totally unconcerned and unfamiliar with what I am talking about. Seems to me that the dream of one day becoming an airline pilot has been reduced to the dream of one day becoming a FedEx airline plot. Everyone else seems to be sliding off the charts.
SkyHigh
Many of us at Horizon thought in the beginning that we could fly there past age 60. I chose to work at Horizon in 1989 over flying for a major airline for two reasons. First, is my desire to live in my hometown and not have to commute. Second, I chose Horizon as my airline company because at that time, we had a very a stable Part 135 operation and I was counting on flying until retiring at age 65. Then in 1995 the FAA forced us to convert to Part 121, thus destroying my plans of flying to 65. I was promoted to Captain through expansion not attrition. Not one pilot was forced to retire to make room for my up-grade. When I was hired at Horizon, 90% of the pilots senior to me were also younger than my 42 years.
Horizon is the best regional airline in the world. What made us the best is the great people, flying in the beautiful Pacific NW and work ethic of our employees. We do not have a company pension plan and even with our excellent 401K, to survive in retirement, one would need to fly at Horizon for at least 30 years and preferably to age 65 for Medicare.
DO NOT FORCE DIRTY APA/ALPA UNION POLITICS OF AGE DISCRIMINATION ON the rest of the industry.
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