EMBFlyer

Please. My last airline was hiring FAs off of Craigslist.

LNL76

So? While I think it's a little tacky, what's the big deal? They can advertise at the highest or lowest levels but the applicants STILL HAVE TO BE ABLE TO GET THROUGH THE INTERVIEW PROCESS, PASS A 10 YEAR BACKGROUND CHECK, FINGERPRINTING, TRAINING, ETC. If you feel that way I can say the same thing at the caliber of pilots they hire as well. (based on their "low class" in hiring processes).

EMBFlyer

The interview process for FAs for a number of years was "Show up. Fog a mirror." I've had Inflight supervisors and instructors admit to me that they hired EVERY SINGLE PERSON that showed up. They would weed them out in training and on the line. There were some that didn't get weeded out. I was also informed that there was a lot of hand-holding going on in training, too.

Look at the TSA thread above. Those people had to go through fingerprinting, background checks, etc.

I'm not saying it's like that at my current company, but at the regional level, it's rampant. Trust me. I was an FA in a former life. It ain't all that.

gloopy

This isn't about human worth or FA validation and has nothing to do with which is a better or more worthy work group. Flight deck access is a huge deal. Couple that with no security screening and it becomes even more critical. To give that to an extra hundred thousand or so people just for labor peace because they think they should get whatever pilots get is rediculous. And a 10 year check only means someone hasn't been caught doing something for 10 years. That is not enough to give someone zero screening flight deck access with an entry level job with a few weeks of training. While everyone focuses on what is probably just a really stupid mistake by one person who probably never meant any harm, the potential for something far worse is there and drastically amplified by this program allowing FA's into it just to massage people's sense of equality.

Airhoss

Pilots have a job to do on an airplane. That job is to safely operate it and in doing so insure that safety of billions of dollars liability in the form of revenue and lives. It is a huge responsibility. It takes years of training and experience to get to be able to sign the release on a big aircraft carrying that revenue and those lives.

Flight attendants are in the trenches with those souls in the back and have to deal with all the in your face BS on a minute by minute basis all while being trapped in the same tightly packed tube. I don't have the desire or the personality to deal with that crud. flight attendants are also your front line NCO's if the SHTF and there becomes a need to moves those souls to safety in a rapid intensive moment of life saving need. It is important to keep that in mind.

I am of the opinion that we should treat our NCO's (flight attendants) with respect and dignity. Despite all the BS that goes on from time to time, if and when the moment of truth ever happens to you, the front lines of the battle to save lives shifts to the cabin and the training and capabilities of your flight attendants. It may even be your sorry carcass that they have to save, it's happened before.

I'm not sure how one F/A being a dumb shiz is indicative of the group as a whole. Because yeah, we've had some unbelievable stuff happen in the pilot ranks over the years. Anybody recall the FedEx pilot with a spear gun and a hammer? How about the two airline pilot (Usair I think it was) geniuses who got caught with a Chieftain full of Coke in Sedona a few years back?

Glass houses being what they are you probably ought to leave the stones on the ground.

The Drizzle

Amen. 12345

LNL76

Thanks for such a well-written, thought-out post. I've always done my best to protect my pilots and was always vigilant while working as "A" while you guys were deep into your pre-flight stuff and a bit on the vulnerable side. It burns my ass when some of you (mostly young FOs it looks like) act like we're dog**** under your shoe. Some of you really need to check your egos AND go for a refresher course on CRM. It's frightful to think how some of you post and I guess act (unless it's just keyboard bravado). Are there bad apples in the FA ranks, for sure, but there are some real doozies in the pilot "hall of fame" as well. The Allegiant creep from a few days ago jumps to mind, the dude who murdered his gf then drove a plane through a fence is another. Some of you are too young to remember at least one who murdered his wife at home in Connecticut (?) then ran her body through a woodchipper (I think there was another one who murdered his wife as well.) Do we also want to talk about the entire cockpit crew who showed up AND FLEW stinkin' drunk?

As Airhoss said, people should put the stones down.

gloopy

All you've proved with what you pointed out is that there are bad apples everywhere. You failed to illustrate why we should allow an additional hundred thousand or so entry level employees with sporadic flight deck access to bypass security.

Pilots have the controls anyway, 100% of the time. Giving unsecured access to all the nation's FA's just to feel good about the equality of human worth is a massive additional vulnerability. You can wax hyperbolic all you want with straw men attacks like as if anyone ever said that but the security issue here is far greater than the high concept of all work groups being equal in every way or whatever.

I have no doubt that you can be trusted. And I understand that its frustrating when you know you're not only safe but a net security asset like you mentioned, only to be put through the same or similar security screening as "everyone else" especially when another work group isn't. But if you look at this from a more wholistic perspective, you have to admit the additional risk created in doing this. Additional risk of something absolutely catestrophic by the way. Can a pilot be crazy, or the bad guys get a pilot on the inside? Sure, its possible. But that in no way justifies adding a hundred thousand more potential crazies or bad guys, especially when its being done at the easiest part of the operation. Its a lot harder for the bad guys to get a pilot through than an entry level FA. This makes it easy on them once they do.

If the program is ever removed for FA's then most FA's will rage that its unfair that the pilots get to keep it. Oh well. Nothing new about that.

amcflyboy

Agreed...people just need to ****. I would love to tell you about the previous Captain I flew with (former F-15 pilot) who really had an inflated ego, but as a C-130 pilot myself, I'll just be the pot calling the kettle black. Executing my duty to ****.

jaded

KCM has nothing to do with flight deck access. It doesn't make that issue any safer... It really has more to do with making our jobs easier. I bet if AFA lobbied for KCM instead of ALPA and the FAs got KCM instead of pilots, you'd all be saying "me too" as well.