Recall of DAL MEC Officers
10-27-2013, 01:56 PM
#681
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by Rather B Fishin
\ As a senior guy who has publicly stated he was retiring at 60 I find your adamant support of DPA comical. .
It would be far easier for him to coast out and cash his substantial paychecks without putting up with the butthurt of fighting for what he believes in. Do you know he's been threatened by ALPA operatives for posting here?
I am glad he's stepped up to the plate. Whether you agree with him or not, he makes a very compelling argument, and his seniority makes him all the more credible.
10-27-2013, 02:32 PM
#682
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Originally Posted by Purple Drank
I look at this another way. Carl is doing his best to improve our lot, despite his seniority. In any case, there is certainly no need to inaccurately and, frankly, maliciously impugn his character and motives.
It would be far easier for him to coast out and cash his substantial paychecks without putting up with the butthurt of fighting for what he believes in. Do you know he's been threatened by ALPA operatives for posting here?
I am glad he's stepped up to the plate. Whether you agree with him or not, he makes a very compelling argument, and his seniority makes him all the more credible.
It would be far easier for him to coast out and cash his substantial paychecks without putting up with the butthurt of fighting for what he believes in. Do you know he's been threatened by ALPA operatives for posting here?
I am glad he's stepped up to the plate. Whether you agree with him or not, he makes a very compelling argument, and his seniority makes him all the more credible.
10-27-2013, 03:08 PM
#683
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 13
Well said. I completely agree. Thanks for standing with us Carl.
Alpa used to be about leaving the profession better for future generations, but it seems to have morphed into an "I got mine" attitude.
We need more Carls.
Alpa used to be about leaving the profession better for future generations, but it seems to have morphed into an "I got mine" attitude.
We need more Carls.
10-27-2013, 04:21 PM
#685
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Carl is a stand up guy. He's a true professional aviator who cares deeply about this profession, as we all should. It's unbelievable some of the ugliness from ALPA aficionados he's had to endure (both here on the forum and especially in private messages) for simply arguing rationally and passionately for the future of our profession. We need more people like Carl with principles who understand the true value of what professional airline pilots do and are not afraid to stand up for it.
Good on you, Carl! I'm proud of you, and proud to call you my friend!
Good on you, Carl! I'm proud of you, and proud to call you my friend!
10-27-2013, 05:30 PM
#686
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
Carl is a stand up guy. He's a true professional aviator who cares deeply about this profession, as we all should. It's unbelievable some of the ugliness from ALPA aficionados he's had to endure (both here on the forum and especially in private messages) for simply arguing rationally and passionately for the future of our profession. We need more people like Carl with principles who understand the true value of what professional airline pilots do and are not afraid to stand up for it.
Good on you, Carl! I'm proud of you, and proud to call you my friend!
Good on you, Carl! I'm proud of you, and proud to call you my friend!
Carl
10-27-2013, 05:44 PM
#687
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Bartels: We have no backup plan if Roberts is recalled. Expressed concern for a recall of the Chairman.
Later Bartels states that he would like to address something said by the ATL Rep yesterday. He described this situation as being like a Navy ship run aground, we fire the captain, not the crew. Bartels said he takes exception to this statement. He went on by saying, with due respect, this is not the military, this is a democracy. The two operate differently, and for very sound reasons. To view or take action here at our MEC as if this were the military would be an injustice to the concept and practice of democracy.
Bartels spoke again:
This situation is not one sided.
Roberts represents change to this pilot group, and they believe things are getting better now.
Moak made changes to his staff and cut out any disinters, most do that, why recall, it's not that unusual.
It is ironic that the Special Committee situation, a committee that was formed to address the DPA situation, will now help and aid DPA.
Bartels explained he had spent much time in Japan and stated that there is an old Japanese saying, “The nail that pops up above the others will be hammered down.” He expressed that Roberts rose to the top and was changing things and had a new approach of bottom-up structure, but now, Roberts efforts will be hammered back down, and we will go back to the old way of doing things again. Not a good path for our future.
Later Bartels states that he would like to address something said by the ATL Rep yesterday. He described this situation as being like a Navy ship run aground, we fire the captain, not the crew. Bartels said he takes exception to this statement. He went on by saying, with due respect, this is not the military, this is a democracy. The two operate differently, and for very sound reasons. To view or take action here at our MEC as if this were the military would be an injustice to the concept and practice of democracy.
Bartels spoke again:
This situation is not one sided.
Roberts represents change to this pilot group, and they believe things are getting better now.
Moak made changes to his staff and cut out any disinters, most do that, why recall, it's not that unusual.
It is ironic that the Special Committee situation, a committee that was formed to address the DPA situation, will now help and aid DPA.
Bartels explained he had spent much time in Japan and stated that there is an old Japanese saying, “The nail that pops up above the others will be hammered down.” He expressed that Roberts rose to the top and was changing things and had a new approach of bottom-up structure, but now, Roberts efforts will be hammered back down, and we will go back to the old way of doing things again. Not a good path for our future.
Carl
10-28-2013, 02:52 AM
#688
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Posts: 132
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
To me, this was the most important and troubling parts of the day 2 testimony.
Carl
Carl
Problem is ideas are one thing, but implementing them is another. He couldn't do it. From what I have been told, many of the ideas were what one other candidate ran on.
Leadership and the ability to lead and manage above the politics, combined with great ideas is a must, and something that was not occurring. Council 1 even admitted that King was not their first choice. A candidate that had eight votes threw his support behind King because the other candidate could not get the last two votes. King was not Tim, no more no less.
Ask both of your Reps if they had concerns prior to the recall letters being sent. The idea of giving it a few more months is novel in concept but if the MEC was dealing with this in a few months, it would have been after a major negotiations failure. Pilots could give two hoots about the politics (20% do at most), and only care about the results. When it was taking more and more time to get the pilots' business done, we have a conflict-resolution, management-leadership decision matrix problem. Everything the MEC has had to deal with to date has allowed for time, but where would the MEC and DALPA be if an event that was in the "no-time" bucket arose? How would the results be affected due to the increasing difficulty of making decisions?
This may have been about politics for many on both sides of the issue, but for a few that were in the middle and truly had concerns, it was about the ability to get the best product in the most efficient manner.
After talking to my Rep, he is adamant that he wants a person with similar ideas, and goals but someone who can lead, implement those ideas, and carry the strong message to the company that the MEC and in turn the pilots demand. We have a company that is returning money to stakeholders, is below 10 billion in debt, and is on track for a profit over 2.5 billion (if the profit sharing comments are correct). We need a Chairman that can convert potential energy in to kinetic energy, not just talk the talk, but walk the walk. There is a big difference.
10-28-2013, 04:01 AM
#689
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 852
Props to Carl for posting and highlighting this comment from Bartels: He went on by saying, with due respect, this is not the military, this is a democracy. The two operate differently, and for very sound reasons. To view or take action here at our MEC as if this were the military would be an injustice to the concept and practice of democracy.
Kingsley was not relieved of command. He was voted out of office by a majority.
Now we're looking forward to some more of that democracy stuff as the MEC elects a new leader.
Kingsley was not relieved of command. He was voted out of office by a majority.
Now we're looking forward to some more of that democracy stuff as the MEC elects a new leader.
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