What ALPA is advocating is that the EXIM bank, funded by US tax payers, not be used to offer attractive financing loans to wealthy ME states, that back their airlines, don't have the same regulatory structure, are anti-union, and intend to dominate the global WB flying, taking US jobs...

If the ME states want to dominate the global WB market, let them...

Compete on a level playing field...

1. Build their own jets. OR
2. Finance their own aircraft loans
3. No US Customs pre-clearance facility in Abu Dhabi, funded pay US taxes for the sole benefit of Etihad....

 

Let's just shoot this part of the debate down right away. Again, ALPA and ALPA members are using inflammatory rhetoric that is simply not true. A little excerpt from the facts of the EXIM bank:


and




Typhoonpilot

 

YES. What Snarge said!

 

If they default, will the US Govt bail them out?

 

Typhoonpilot,

Point 1, where did the billions of dollars in "capital" to start the EXIM bank come from? Hint: US Taxpayers.

Point 2, just think how much MORE money the EXIM bank could make for the US taxpayer if they charged interest rates that US Airlines have to pay or let US Airlines use them to finance aircraft too.

Denny

 

^^^^Bingo^^^^

 

Delta Assault On Ex-Im Bank Misleads Congress, Undermines Boeing - Forbes

Atlas Air, a U.S. based corporation uses Ex-Im bank financing to fund aircraft purchases.

 

So how about Delta, United, American, and USAirways purchasing of Airbus aircraft? Did they get any sweet financing deals from the Europeans? Are Airbus manufactured aircraft obtainable at a lower cost due to European government subsidies in the development of Airbus products?

Have you read the ALPA white paper? It does talk about the Airbus side as well:

1:30 p.m. EDT September 5, 2013

Delta Air Lines announced a 40-jet order on Wednesday. Industry observers say the deal underscores Delta's desire for a deal as well as the competitiveness between the world's two biggest jetmakers.

Delta said it signed a firm order for 30 Airbus A321s, likely to be used mostly on domestic flights, and 10 A330 widebodies that are geared toward long-haul international routes. The new planes are to be delivered to Delta between 2015 and 2017.

An Airbus statement said "many of Delta's A321s are expected to be assembled at the brand-new Airbus assembly line in Mobile, Ala.," though the Mobile Press-Register adds "it was not immediately clear how many aircraft constitute 'many.' " Airbus' Alabama facility is set to start delivering Airbus' A320 family – which includes the A321 – in 2016.

Delta's order is only the second that it has ever placed with Airbus, with the last coming more than two decades ago. However, Delta does already have 158 Airbus planes that it inherited via its 2008 acquisition of Northwest Airlines.

As for Wednesday's order, The Wall Street Journal called it "a victory for the European plane maker because (Delta) has mainly bought planes from rival Boeing in the past." Reuters echoed that sentiment, writing Delta appears to be "softening its reliance on Boeing for the first time in two decades as it looks for plane bargains."

On the subject of bargains, Delta's 40-jet Airbus order would be worth $5.6 billion at list prices – though the carrier is all but certain to have negotiated a substantial discount.

"I would be surprised if Delta didn't get a phenomenally good deal," Adam Pilarski, senior vice president at U.S.-based aviation consultants Avitas, says to Reuters.

Delta's bargain-seeking likely was helped by the fact that it chose Airbus plane models that are giving way in popularity to next-generation options. The News-Tribune of Tacoma, Wash., writes that "by selecting the existing designs, Delta likely took advantage of closeout savings on the aircraft it ordered. The A321 is being succeeded by the A321neo, and the A330's new technology cousin is Airbus' A350."

"Certainly you would think it's a buyer's market for those planes," Fred Lowrance, an analyst at Avondale Partners, says to Bloomberg News. "Those aren't the 'hot' planes these days."

Bloomberg also says that by keeping its fleet a mix of Boeing and Airbus planes, Delta "gets leverage in negotiations with planemakers that already offer discounts."

Delta CEO Richard Anderson himself described Wednesday's order as an "opportunistic" one that allowed his company to buy "economically efficient, proven-technology aircraft."

In its coverage of the deal, The Associated Press notes "the new-plane smell is rare at Delta." AP points out that Delta's "getting used Boeing 717s from Southwest Airlines, which got them when it bought AirTran but didn't want to keep them. Delta will use them in part to replace DC-9s that are an average of 35 years old."

"Delta has also bought dozens of used MD-90s, last built in 2000. And it has delayed delivery of Boeing's new 787 until 2020, while competitors such as United Airlines are flying that long-haul jet now," AP adds.

Delta's most recent delivery of a brand-new aircraft came in December 2010, and the carrier is set to begin taking deliveries of new Boeing 737-900s later this month, according to AP.

Richard Aboulafia, vice president of the Virginia-based consultant Teal Group, tells Bloomberg News that Delta's aircraft strategy has left it with one of the "least heterogeneous" fleets in the industry. However, he says Delta appears to have used that as an advantage by seeking "bottom-feeder prices (for) current or end-of-production-life jets, coupled with lots of unloved but perfectly good used jets."


and:

Published: July 20, 2011


PARIS — American Airlines announced on Wednesday a record order for 460 single-aisle planes from Airbus and Boeing in a deal worth more than $38 billion. The order breaks the longstanding monopoly that Boeing has had with the airline and forced a significant shift in the company’s strategy.

American, based in Fort Worth, Tex., said that it planned to acquire 260 of the Airbus A320 aircraft and 200 Boeing 737s — half of which will be equipped with a new, more fuel-efficient engine. The move is a clear commitment by Boeing to revamp its best-selling 737 with new engines rather than develop an all-new version of the plane — a strategy that until now it had said most of its customers preferred.

The deal, which American described as the largest commercial aircraft deal in history, also includes options and purchase rights for as many as 465 additional planes through 2025.

The airline said Airbus and Boeing had provided a combined $13 billion in financing through lease transactions, which it said would fully cover the cost of the first 230 deliveries, set to begin in 2013. American said it expected to begin receiving its first Airbus and Boeing aircraft equipped with the more advanced engines starting in 2017.

“Today’s announcement paves the way for us to achieve important milestones in our company’s future, giving us the ability to replace our narrow-body fleet and finance it responsibly,” said Gerard Arpey, the chairman and chief executive of American and its parent company, AMR. “With today’s news, we expect to have the youngest and most fuel-efficient fleet among our peers in the U.S. industry within five years.”

The order represents a coup for Boeing’s European rival, Airbus, which has not sold new planes to American in more than two decades. American retired its last Airbus jets — a handful of A300 widebodies — in 2009.

“Not only have they sold jets to American, but they have forced Boeing’s hand into pushing for a re-engined 737,” said Saj Ahmad, an analyst at FBE Aerospace in London.

Of the 260 Airbus jets on order, 130 will be for the A320neo, an upgraded version of its A320, which Airbus expects to bring to market beginning in 2016. Airbus has been promising fuel savings with the A320neo of as much as 15 percent over current engines. The new plane is also expected to run more quietly, cost less to operate and be able to fly farther or carry heavier loads while emitting less greenhouse gases.



The point being that U.S. airlines are benefiting just as much from government subsidies ( read buying Airbus aircraft at heavily discounted prices that are only sustainable due to the government backing of Airbus ) and cheap financing also backed by Airbus as foreign airlines might be from getting a couple percentage point discount on the widebody aircraft they buy from Boeing and financed through the Export import Bank.





TP

 

Boeing is not the enemy, much business has fled the US and continues to do so because we have constructed a climate hostile to business.

The boys in Dubai clearly know how to create an environment friendly to their interests, we could easily do the same but it looks very unlikely in the near future.

 

Fix our product to match theirs and we have nothing to worry about.