Originally Posted by SewerPipeDvr (Post 2125310)

You guys really need to stop playing lawyer on the net. The way it works. The company tracks your working habits. Everyone flies the contract and X amount of extra flying. That is the norm. If suddenly the X goes away, that can be brought to a Judge as proof of a job action. Don't doubt for a minute a F&H employee or similar firm is not copying every post here.

A Judge hears the suit brought before him. He/she could care less what the parties are like. Most of the time, it is the best attorney (attorneys make lots of money, lawyers not so much as in dime a dozen) that wins the case. The company can afford the best. Last point, if you guys don't know who is talking about "fly the contract and nothing else what can they do?" that person just might be a F&H employee or similar firm paid to get ammo for the company (see paragraph 1). We had employees do just that for our clients. So don't help your foe. Think about the idiots that shoot deer out of season and post on social media. Just be careful what you write AND respond to. A disclaimer- I never worked contracts for any airline by chance or choice but still a bastard who won cases for clients.

Originally Posted by Chimpy (Post 2125333)

I'll be the first to go to jail then because as an F/O I credited 100+ hrs every month and since I upgraded I drop 2-3 R days a month and credit mid 60s, lol.

Of course this has more to do with somewhat increased pay and just wanting to be around for my daughters than it is "sticking it to the management" <------ legal disclaimer lol

Originally Posted by Rainbows (Post 2125313)

Forced to pick up open time. Other airlines have been forced to do it, there is precedent there to make us do the same.

Originally Posted by Montanaflying (Post 2125465)

DELTA AIR LINES INC v. AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION INTERNATIONAL | FindLaw

Both ALPA and individual pilots were fined, there is legal precedent.

Originally Posted by Montanaflying (Post 2125465)

DELTA AIR LINES INC v. AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION INTERNATIONAL | FindLaw

Both ALPA and individual pilots were fined, there is legal precedent.

Originally Posted by Montanaflying (Post 2125465)

DELTA AIR LINES INC v. AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION INTERNATIONAL | FindLaw

Both ALPA and individual pilots were fined, there is legal precedent.

Originally Posted by Chimpy (Post 2125502)

Funny, maybe just maybe if Bendo would show up and negotiate a fair deal this wouldn't be an issue. We would all go above and beyond to ensure a really solid operation.

Originally Posted by Rainbows (Post 2125312)

Yeah, tell that to the Allegiant pilots who were told "no strike" by a judge. You really shouldn't stick your nose in where you have no idea what you're talking about. Spirit is the third largest carrier in Chicago and the fifth largest in Dallas. Do you really think a judge is going to force Spirit to stop that service to those airports? We're fighting a battle that's stacked against us. At least in the War of Northern Aggression, both sides had comparable guns, here management has m16s and we've got muskets.

Originally Posted by Packrat (Post 2125693)

Don't get all high and mighty. 3rd largest in Chicago? 5th largest in Dallas? Small potatoes for sure. Both Spirit and Allegiant can strike all they want with net zero effect on the economy of the nation as a whole. If anyone is allowed to strike it will be Spirit and/or Allegiant.

Originally Posted by Packrat (Post 2125693)

Don't get all high and mighty. 3rd largest in Chicago? 5th largest in Dallas? Small potatoes for sure. Both Spirit and Allegiant can strike all they want with net zero effect on the economy of the nation as a whole. If anyone is allowed to strike it will be Spirit and/or Allegiant.

Originally Posted by Ed Force One (Post 2124711)

Not sure the finger is actually necessary, but the slogan itself is genius and I'd gladly rock one of those on my gear.

Originally Posted by Rainbows (Post 2125313)

Forced to pick up open time. Other airlines have been forced to do it, there is precedent there to make us do the same.

Originally Posted by Chimpy (Post 2125714)

Obama appointed the head of the NMB who said (to Republic) no airline will ever be allowed to strike again on her watch.

Originally Posted by FirstClass (Post 2125766)

Can you show that quote published somewhere.

Originally Posted by gringo (Post 2125720)

..........

Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot (Post 2125820)

Makes no sense to the public. It has to mention that the CEO said or thinks we are low tier not that we actually are

Originally Posted by Hilltopper89 (Post 2125977)

Ok. I read what the CEO said and am struggling to figure out how it could be interpreted as a reference to the pilots. He said there were tiers of fares. I'm confused.

Originally Posted by Chimpy (Post 2125984)

Yes & no. He said there are "three tiers" of airlines when he was asked about rising pilot compensation. He then said Spirit was on the lowest Tier and basically We all be a bunch of dumb rednecks who are "just happy" to Upgrade.

What he failed to mention to Investors is that F/Os at Legacies are compensated higher than us "Dumber than **** CAs who are just happy to Upgrade" as well as upgrade at Legacies being shorter than ours.

What's really scary is if they really are that out of touch how do they have a snowballs chance in hell in getting this place to at least be on time 75% of the time.

If they do know what's going on then they are flat out lying to The investment community to hide the fact we are all Very dissatisfied

Originally Posted by dn_wisconsin (Post 2126011)

If they didn't know before, which I highly doubt, they do now with that pamphlet. Dumped into a chief yesterday. He said a pilot called him directly to tell him about it. Yes, a pilot. Same guy probably just took a 4 hour JM so a flight didn't cancel. Or better yet, just for move up.

Or maybe it's denial? Complete denial how bad it is right now?

Originally Posted by Hilltopper89 (Post 2125977)

Ok. I read what the CEO said and am struggling to figure out how it could be interpreted as a reference to the pilots. He said there were tiers of fares. I'm confused.

Originally Posted by Chimpy (Post 2126015)

Yeah. I wasn't around before 2013 but the Morale now is the lowest I've ever seen, (anywhere in my short 11 year career). If imagine it will get a lot worse before it gets better

Originally Posted by putzin (Post 2126064)

If you judged morale by apc, I'd say yes. But on the line?? Not so much and most are barely even ****ed.

I also don't remember the last time I've flown with a captain who wasn't JA'd. Some JA'd as far out as the 48. They're certainly anti opentime, but happy to do their part to save the schedule for a little extra coin.

Same old alpa, different color tail.

Originally Posted by putzin (Post 2126064)

If you judged morale by apc, I'd say yes. But on the line?? Not so much and most are barely even ****ed.

I also don't remember the last time I've flown with a captain who wasn't JA'd. Some JA'd as far out as the 48. They're certainly anti opentime, but happy to do their part to save the schedule for a little extra coin.

Same old alpa, different color tail.

Originally Posted by Rainbows (Post 2125709)

I hope you're right, but I'm guessing you're not. Allegiant has already been denied the right to strike, so you're fifty percent wrong already. Hopefully, you're at least fifty percent right.

Originally Posted by Chimpy (Post 2126077)

Well, at least the JRM is costing the company more money. That's really the only silver lining I can see lol.

The Majority of F/Os I fly with are figuring out how to escape. One went to a Job Fair before OE, lol. It's not that guys are miserable per se but they aren't exactly "Happy" either. It's like when I was at XJT. Everyone is just doing the "BARE" minimum until a legacy calls or we get a contract. Just an observation

Originally Posted by Chimpy (Post 2125984)

Yes & no. He said there are "three tiers" of airlines when he was asked about rising pilot compensation. He then said Spirit was on the lowest Tier and basically We all be a bunch of dumb rednecks who are "just happy" to Upgrade.

What he failed to mention to Investors is that F/Os at Legacies are compensated higher than us "Dumber than **** CAs who are just happy to Upgrade" as well as upgrade at Legacies being shorter than ours.

What's really scary is if they really are that out of touch how do they have a snowballs chance in hell in getting this place to at least be on time 75% of the time.

If they do know what's going on then they are flat out lying to The investment community to hide the fact we are all Very dissatisfied

Originally Posted by dawgdriver (Post 2127175)

Whats crazy is the "frog boiling" effect and how everything appears to be normal to many who still work there. Until you leave to a place where things really are normal, it becomes hard to notice. Over time, the absurd becomes routine. Maintenance practices, staffing models, extreme outsourcing, shoddy training and non-exist infrastructure, considered heresy at other airlines, is normal and acceptable at the highly profitable allegiant.

All the savings and profits enjoyed by investors ensures everything gets lumped on the backs of the woefully underpaid front line employees. The inevitable burnout ensures high turnover, continued entry-level wages (read: $avings) steep learning curves and frustration. New airline, every day.

Originally Posted by VegassBus (Post 2127349)

Took this from the Allegiant thread. It's worth repeating here

Originally Posted by nkbux (Post 2127432)

I'm just as frustrated as the next guy but let's call a spade a spade. Our training is not bad and our maintenance compared to they'res is impeccable. I've never had to explain asking for more gas or wondered if something imperative to safety was gonna get fixed. It boils down to dollars in our pockets vs dollars in they're pockets but let's not stab shoddy maintenance at them because it's just not the case

Originally Posted by nkbux (Post 2127432)

I'm just as frustrated as the next guy but let's call a spade a spade. Our training is not bad and our maintenance compared to they'res is impeccable. I've never had to explain asking for more gas or wondered if something imperative to safety was gonna get fixed. It boils down to dollars in our pockets vs dollars in they're pockets but let's not stab shoddy maintenance at them because it's just not the case

Originally Posted by Rainbows (Post 2127550)

Yeah, I gotta agree with this too. I've never had a CP or company man call me up to question something I did, or my captain did. I've never had anyone call me saying I was too concerned with safety. I've never had a CP call me and say, "you're wasting too much fuel". The pay is pretty substandard here, but the job itself ain't half bad. I'm guessing there's plenty places worse.