Hiring wave vs. the degree requirement

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Quote: ******* would I know what that is? but people have it.

Plenty of people I know make a very nice living out of flying without a degree and invested very little compared to their degreed counterparts doing the same thing. With flow programs, why in the ******* would you get one?

You say if there's a downturn or what not, well then that person can collect unemployment for maybe 2 years depending on how bad it is and get that college degree they never got on the front end. Except now they're getting paid to attend school, with recall prospects should he/she decide the other career is not for them.
I personally hope more people have your same philosophy....for my own personal reasons.
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Quote: You say if there's a downturn or what not, well then that person can collect unemployment for maybe 2 years depending on how bad it is and get that college degree they never got on the front end. Except now they're getting paid to attend school, with recall prospects should he/she decide the other career is not for them.
I apologize sir but you have a loser mentality, I wish you good luck in your endeavors.
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Quote: I get what you're saying, but most people today are not going to take on $100k+ in debt just to be 'well rounded.' With the cost of college going through the roof, you better pick a good field. My cousin just finished his bachelors and the total cost was over $200k. Needless to say, he's going to need a good paying job out of school.

Also, attaining knowledge, applying critical thinking, accomplishing goals, and meeting timelines are things we as pilots accomplish every day, degree or not.
I hope your cousin is now a doctor or a lawyer. Otherwise, he just made a huge mistake that is going to cost him a long time working to fix.
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Quote: Hello all, first time poster. We all know that traditionally (the last decade or so) a bachelors degree has been a requirement to get hired by one of the majors. With the forecasted hiring wave due to retirements, what are your opinions of a guy being competitive without a bachelors degree over the next 3-5 years?

I'm currently in a bit of a pickle deciding on my next move to make myself a more desirable and qualified applicant. Unfortunately when I started flying, I had enough saved to either finish my flight ratings or go to college.

My current situation allows for one of two options. Stay debt free, keep plugging away at my regional job flying 90 hours with 12 days off in month. Volunteer my time on days off to causes that could genuinely use a helping hand; be productive and offer some real help.

Option two- take out student loans to finish an online degree in my free time. Would wind up digging myself a $25,000 hole and take about 3 years to wrap up. I'm ok with that if it would put me in a position to be hired by a company that pays better than a paycheck to paycheck lifestyle.

I talk with guys in the jumpseat that say 5 years from now, the big three will be hiring guys without a degree on a regular basis. I'm looking for your opinions because I don't want to look back and say 'I should have started the degree years ago because now I'm stuck here' or 'I should have never taken out the loans and done the degree because it wasn't even needed.'
You might get hired without one a few years out, but that is pure conjecture. In any case, the person with a degree is always going to have a leg up on the person without one when it comes to getting hired and in finding something else to do if their flying career comes to an end for reasons not in their control.

Not to be an alarmist, but we are currently in one of the longest economic expansions in history. In a timeframe of 3 to 5 years out, there is no guarantee that this will continue and a decent chance that we hit a rough patch, which might make that pilot shortage/lowered standards prediction a bit off. I've seen three major industry downturns that have swept a lot of predictions about hiring into the trash. Things have a way of seeming one way until suddenly they aren't and the fallout from these events can take years to go away. The Gulf War in 1990. 9/11 and the 2008 Great Recession should be constant reminders not to assume that the current situation will continue without interruption. Before that, there was the 1973 oil embargo, the 1979/80 recession and the 1982 recession.

Look at getting a degree as both an insurance policy and as a leg up on getting hired. There are ways to do it without incurring huge debt and cost.
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Quote: I apologize sir but you have a loser mentality, I wish you good luck in your endeavors.
You can't find fault with my analysis or a reason why this isn't a better, or at least an equal to the plan of pursuing a college degree first, so you resort to name calling. Nice. No need to apologize. Make sure to tell all the upcoming influx of non degreed flowthroughs that's coming your way that they have the loser mentality.
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Quote: Finishes undergrad in 02, and grad school in 13. My oldest starts this summer. She is paying for the first two years herself and I will cover the last two (thanks to mil benefits). She was extremely worried about the costs, thought there was no way she could afford it. I believe she thought this way due to someone's hidden agenda out there to make college free. if you convince the general public it is an impossible feat that will lead to years if debt, then they will gladly swallow the pill when it comes to higher taxes to pay for everyone's college. That being said let us talk actual numbers. The college she is going to for nursing is a little more than 2k per year. That is less than 200/month. She will live with us or family so no rent will be required and food will be cheap. Then if she had to pay to finish her bachelors in state cost is about 10k per year. The total in tuition is about 25k. Whole I completely agree that it is more than it should cost, and this has been driven up due to extra administration at most colleges (and not more teachers) it is still affordable.
Public colleges used to be almost free, why cant it be now? Why does it have to be for profit these days?
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Quote: You might get hired without one a few years out, but that is pure conjecture. In any case, the person with a degree is always going to have a leg up on the person without one when it comes to getting hired and in finding something else to do if their flying career comes to an end for reasons not in their control.

Not to be an alarmist, but we are currently in one of the longest economic expansions in history. In a timeframe of 3 to 5 years out, there is no guarantee that this will continue and a decent chance that we hit a rough patch, which might make that pilot shortage/lowered standards prediction a bit off. I've seen three major industry downturns that have swept a lot of predictions about hiring into the trash. Things have a way of seeming one way until suddenly they aren't and the fallout from these events can take years to go away. The Gulf War in 1990. 9/11 and the 2008 Great Recession should be constant reminders not to assume that the current situation will continue without interruption. Before that, there was the 1973 oil embargo, the 1979/80 recession and the 1982 recession.

Look at getting a degree as both an insurance policy and as a leg up on getting hired. There are ways to do it without incurring huge debt and cost.
Economic expansion? Where? What are you talking about? There has been no growth for the middle class since the 70's. Just hit after hit from manufactured downturns to take wages and pensions away. The news might be reporting one thing, but it isn't reality.
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Quote: Public colleges used to be almost free, why cant it be now? Why does it have to be for profit these days?
I agree it should be much cheaper. Administration and bureaucratic growth has driven up costs. It absolutely should not be that way. It shouldn't be for profit, at least not on the public side. It is a shame, but it is the self licking ice cream cone. Keep adding jobs that do nothing for education(except drive up costs), soon the middle class can't afford it and then it must be funded by tax dollars. Unfortunately it is probably only a matter of time.
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Quote: Public colleges used to be almost free, why cant it be now? Why does it have to be for profit these days?
One word--subsidies. College loans are subsidized by government guarantees increasing demand; colleges aren't going to charge the same tuition if they can take the implied subsidy in the loans.

GF
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Quote:
Look at getting a degree as both an insurance policy and as a leg up on getting hired. There are ways to do it without incurring huge debt and cost.
I wholeheartedly agree with this advice fwiw. I'm part of the circumstantial snail pace degree crowd. I haven't achieved the 4 yr(yet) due mainly to finances or more accurately yet the lack thereof. I completed a 2yr with what I could afford and managed to get hired at my desired Major(not legacy) with it. I have no burning desire to work for a legacy, all things considered in my own personal world, but you can bet I'm still slowly working on the 4yr for personal achievement reasons and more importantly as "Matt1" mentioned, my own insurance policy.

Just my two cents.

-2263
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