Deny NAI failed, given final approval by DOT
12-02-2016 | 11:51 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 521
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You guys are funny! This career has always paid low wages, nothing new...There was a brief period in the early 2000's when UAL and DAL had good contracts and that didn't last long. Although the wages are decent now, there are no more pensions. At best, an airline career will give one a middle class lifestyle and that's about it. However, there are those that will retire wealthy relatively speaking but those are very few who made some good investment decisions. Norwegian is not the only problem on the horizon, there will be many other obstacles to face n it's not over yet. Having said that, an airline job is still not that bad of a career assuming one loves the profession.
I made over $300,000 this year in addition to the $50,000 they put in my retirement account.
12-03-2016 | 12:02 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,599
Likes: 206
From: 787
Please. No more hyperbole about scabs. There is no such thing as 'not technically a scab' or 'scab-adjacent.' One is either a scab or not. A strike would have to exist and a picket line would have to be crossed in order for someone to be labeled a scab. There are no strikes and no picket lines to cross.
Norwegian pilots may not be scabs but they will be treated as such by me. Low life scum of the earth sell outs.
12-03-2016 | 01:13 AM
#34
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,067
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Given that all of them are European (so far), I do not think any of them care what U.S. pilots think of them.
12-03-2016 | 05:11 AM
#35
SDQ Base Chief
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,084
Likes: 46
From: 320 CA
So...just to be clear, the only opposition to Norwegian is the fact that they have three divisions, one based in Norway, one in Ireland and one in the UK?
It certainly cannot be the pay because there has been no opposition to the DOT approving Eurowings, an alter ego carrier formed by Lufthansa that pays 15% less than Norwegian. It certainly cannot be because of contract crew members employed through agencies based in the far/middle east because China Southern, Hainan, Air China, China Eastern, Sichuan and WOW Airlines (just to name a few), all use employees contracted through agencies based in the far and middle east and had zero issues with DOT approval.
The issue is with the fact that NAI has been issued an AOC through a modern, western European Democracy, in full compliance with EU rules, and not in another modern, western European Democracy, in full compliance with EU/EEA rules?
It certainly cannot be the pay because there has been no opposition to the DOT approving Eurowings, an alter ego carrier formed by Lufthansa that pays 15% less than Norwegian. It certainly cannot be because of contract crew members employed through agencies based in the far/middle east because China Southern, Hainan, Air China, China Eastern, Sichuan and WOW Airlines (just to name a few), all use employees contracted through agencies based in the far and middle east and had zero issues with DOT approval.
The issue is with the fact that NAI has been issued an AOC through a modern, western European Democracy, in full compliance with EU rules, and not in another modern, western European Democracy, in full compliance with EU/EEA rules?
12-03-2016 | 05:19 AM
#36
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,738
Likes: 15
I would like to sum up this entire thread in this one short video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFevxqmg92s
Much more interesting conversation in the Norwegian Air Explained thread at:
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ma...explained.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFevxqmg92s
Much more interesting conversation in the Norwegian Air Explained thread at:
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ma...explained.html
12-03-2016 | 05:26 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,153
Likes: 341
Awesome! I can be a 787 captain making less than a DAL 717 FO... WITH 10 days off to sweeten the quality of life! Zero benefits, no union protection, I mean is that not a sweet deal or what? What did the previous generations work so hard for?
In the mean time I can spend all my free time trying to start up a business so that when the current job I spent 20 years trying to get into goes away! Who wants to waste all that free time with family? I'm sure my kids will totally understand. Why would anyone do something so stupid as to squander all that opportunity at home doing time wasting acitivities like t-ball games and cub scouts?
Bro, thanks for the big picture! You should be on tour with Tony Robbins, seriously.
In the mean time I can spend all my free time trying to start up a business so that when the current job I spent 20 years trying to get into goes away! Who wants to waste all that free time with family? I'm sure my kids will totally understand. Why would anyone do something so stupid as to squander all that opportunity at home doing time wasting acitivities like t-ball games and cub scouts?
Bro, thanks for the big picture! You should be on tour with Tony Robbins, seriously.
I know the truth hurts but at some point we are going to have to face reality. We've been working in an environment with little outside competition unlike the rest of the citizenship. Yes, things will get worse in the future. Just take advantage of the money you are earning now and invest wisely.
I am a little upset as I've worked many years, and struggled with low pay for many years as well, to get to where I am today to "finally" start making decent money. It is what it is. You deal the hand you were dealt. Honestly I think going to SWA, jetBlue or Spirit is actually a better career choice long term than the big 3. They will grow, their brands are strong. The big 3 will most likely shrink over time, their larger legacy cost structure and management culture slowly suffocating them.
Norwegian offers a good, solid product, on new aircraft, for a good price. They are highly rated on customer review sites unlike AA, DAL, and UA. There is a reason people continue to purchase on them, and not us.
12-03-2016 | 05:31 AM
#38
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,569
Likes: 0
From: 747 captain
People like you....., people that refuse to be manipulated and actually think...., you apple pie and puppy haters.....! You need to be waterboarded with the Koolaid and never question the mighty ALPA propaganda......., never
So...just to be clear, the only opposition to Norwegian is the fact that they have three divisions, one based in Norway, one in Ireland and one in the UK?
It certainly cannot be the pay because there has been no opposition to the DOT approving Eurowings, an alter ego carrier formed by Lufthansa that pays 15% less than Norwegian. It certainly cannot be because of contract crew members employed through agencies based in the far/middle east because China Southern, Hainan, Air China, China Eastern, Sichuan and WOW Airlines (just to name a few), all use employees contracted through agencies based in the far and middle east and had zero issues with DOT approval.
The issue is with the fact that NAI has been issued an AOC through a modern, western European Democracy, in full compliance with EU rules, and not in another modern, western European Democracy, in full compliance with EU/EEA rules?
It certainly cannot be the pay because there has been no opposition to the DOT approving Eurowings, an alter ego carrier formed by Lufthansa that pays 15% less than Norwegian. It certainly cannot be because of contract crew members employed through agencies based in the far/middle east because China Southern, Hainan, Air China, China Eastern, Sichuan and WOW Airlines (just to name a few), all use employees contracted through agencies based in the far and middle east and had zero issues with DOT approval.
The issue is with the fact that NAI has been issued an AOC through a modern, western European Democracy, in full compliance with EU rules, and not in another modern, western European Democracy, in full compliance with EU/EEA rules?
12-03-2016 | 05:47 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,498
Likes: 506
12-03-2016 | 06:01 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
From: 737 FO
Honest question for those who know more about this than I.... I get that the problem that people are seeing with NAI is basing in Ireland to be able to use labor laws that are more beneficial to them. But what about Irish carriers such as Aerlingus? How does the Open Skies agreement apply to them, or why is nobody upset about them flying to the US? I personally would love anything that's going to help sustain a successful career at the legacy I work for but just am trying to see what the argument would have been for the DOJ to deny the application.
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