Eric Stratton

so are you saying that LOA 19 should be used as leverage against the NWA pilots in regards to SLI? essencially take what we are offering or you get nothing...

Superpilot92

short sighted to say the least

NWA320pilot

Nobody knows what the SLI will be like...... But in any case there will be those on both sides that feel like they are getting screwed. The ultimate outcome should be a list that is fair to all parties. Holding JPWA as hostage pending the outcome of the SLI is just what both MEC's don't want. As mentioned above with the price of fuel increasing daily I personally feel that we will loose more than we did when an agreement was not reached earlier.

One item that has not been mentioned is what happens if the JPWA is voted down and after the DCC DAL management negotiates with the NWA-ALPA for improvements to their pilot group, basically giving all the provitions of LOA 19 and all DAL pilots. Under this we would all be working under basically the same rules for less than is on the table now. Just food for thought.

johnso29

First of all, it's not MY job to negotiate a seniority list. You're gonna have to talk to YOUR union reps about that.

Secondly, LOA 19 will last long enough for us to be ONE seniority list with two seperate pay scales. That will result in some of your DAL brothers being furloughed, and they'll have you to thank for it. LOA 19 will do nothing positive for the new DAL.

Superpilot92

I think thats exactly what would happen. The NWA mec will get their own version of LOA 19 to keep our side happy, we will get the same SLI, but the DAL side will have successfully divided what could have been a very strong pilot group. Eventually the SOC will happen, we will have the sli done and we will get the same effects but for less money than we could have had. It will also waste the New DAL much needed cash in the transition period.

Its pathetic that some DAL guys think they need to use the TA to get imaginative leverage on the SLI. That cant happen via the agreement YOUR MEC and OUR MEC have set forth and does nothing more than make bad blood.

WE need to avoid dividing the pilot group. The long term effects of having a solid pilot group far out weigh any short term effects of either side hoping for a "windfall".

Check Essential

No. I'm saying the JPWA should be used as a carrot to encourage the NWA pilots to negotiate SLI. If they stick with "arbitration or bust" and refuse to allow any meaningful progress in the talks, the JPWA is likely to be voted down.
Nobody is saying we have to agree on a final list by Aug 12th but it looks like at least some basic principles or maybe a rough outline of methodology might be necessary.
The Aug 12th list of "resolved issues" better not be blank or the contract is in real trouble.

Superpilot92

The key point is that the MECs ARE working together and BOTH sides have the same common goals of making a FAIR list and avoiding a second USAIR disaster. I think we will all be pleasantly surprised on how the list is negotiated mutually. Neither side wants to go to arbitration and put the outcome in the hands of arbitrators. Have faith

Spaceman Spliff

As far as I know, DALPA is not conducting road shows for the TA. It's basically the same as LOA 19. Therein lies the problem--LOA 19 was a great bridge-type insurance policy. But it's a lousy long-term deal, which is why NO votes are increasing substantially.

The risks associated with this merger should be coupled with much more substantial payoffs due to the pilots...if it works out. At the very least, let's get a COLA + and much more aggressive profit-sharing framework...something that costs the company zero in the short run, but which will hopefully benefit us greatly down the road.

Panic is not doing anybody any good. Management is not panicking. Why should we? Let's send it back and try again.

Superpilot92

I normally would 100% agree with you but we dont have negotiating power to send it back and look for more right now. If the industry was in decent shape sure never say yes first go but look what happened by not agreeing in Feb. If we didnt get more on the joint TA NOW what makes you think we can get more later? Serious questions

Our leverage is going down every time oil goes up. This very well could be the best time to take it and run. Establishing a strong pilot group carries big benefits from here on out. We need to be working together just as our MECs are now.

Justdoinmyjob

Actually, there is a part of LOA 19 which prohibits the company from doing exactly that.

My feeling is that if (and it's a big if,) the DL side turns this down, all RA has to do is offer the NW side LOA 19 too, just change some wording. Now, were both on the same payscale, (there's the parity,) but no JCBA until LOA 19 expires. The SLI would still be completed, just not implemented until a JCBA is ratified. It is an end around of the NO voters. It will not and cannot stop the SLI, but puts us all at a disadvantage against management til we can get a JCBA. It does however, sow the seeds for problems down the road.

What's driving the NO vote is fear of the unknown. Will the -9s and -200 whales be parked: Unknown. What are the crewing ramifications if it happens: Unknown. How much seniority will I lose?: Unknown.

Yes there are a few individuals who want to turn this down because they think that there is money still on the table and we can do better. Personally, I disagree with that logic. I haven't talked with one guy who is upset with the parity part though. The majority of the NO voters are driven by the SLI unkowns, just like the NW guys were driven by the unknowns concerning LOA 19 and the JCBA.

How will I vote? I voted yes on LOA 19, and am leaning towards a yes vote here. Do I have concerns about the SLI? Sure, who doesn't. I believe in our negotiators though, and have faith that they, along with their NW counterparts understand the importance and significance of what they are doing. We may all be required to endure a little pain in the short term, but if the end result is we are better off, I'll sit in the rigt seat a little while longer.

And if I do get furloughed, you bastages better take care of me!