DAL "Yes" Voters: Take a hike.
09-10-2008, 06:11 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 330Fo
Posts: 215
Senor,
Put down the computer, walk away, just walk away and relax a bit. As for being furloughed that is always a possibility in this industry, with or without a merger, but for what it's worth we are really running short over here at NWA and this is before we implement the DAL rules. We've had a lot of guys retire in the last six months, close to 200 since January, and I expect a lot more in the near future. Their staffing is based on parking 9s if they keep some of the 9s or not pickle some 57s/320s then we are going to be way short. If you think your lot is so bad with the combined DAL/NWA ask a USAir or United pilot if they would trade places with you!
Put down the computer, walk away, just walk away and relax a bit. As for being furloughed that is always a possibility in this industry, with or without a merger, but for what it's worth we are really running short over here at NWA and this is before we implement the DAL rules. We've had a lot of guys retire in the last six months, close to 200 since January, and I expect a lot more in the near future. Their staffing is based on parking 9s if they keep some of the 9s or not pickle some 57s/320s then we are going to be way short. If you think your lot is so bad with the combined DAL/NWA ask a USAir or United pilot if they would trade places with you!
09-10-2008, 06:47 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: 88B - Loud Pipes Save Lives
Posts: 1,597
Spliff,
You're not supposed to inhale until after you've retired. You're just having a bad trip. Turn on Casey Jones by the Dead and things will at least feel a little more mellow.
You're not supposed to inhale until after you've retired. You're just having a bad trip. Turn on Casey Jones by the Dead and things will at least feel a little more mellow.
09-10-2008, 07:25 PM
#14
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,868
Spliff,
I voted yes which is great because I love hiking. Could it have been better - yes, but that doesn't matter - Sometimes you have to decide between two imperfect choices. I hope oil keeps dropping - I know it would be horrible if DAL makes some big bucks, but ask your buddies at UAL, CAL, or almost any other airline how they are doing.
Like I said, its not perfect but just like McCain/Obama sometimes both options suck - in these types of situations pick the least sucky option.
Scoop
I voted yes which is great because I love hiking. Could it have been better - yes, but that doesn't matter - Sometimes you have to decide between two imperfect choices. I hope oil keeps dropping - I know it would be horrible if DAL makes some big bucks, but ask your buddies at UAL, CAL, or almost any other airline how they are doing.
Like I said, its not perfect but just like McCain/Obama sometimes both options suck - in these types of situations pick the least sucky option.
Scoop
09-11-2008, 02:43 AM
#15
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by newKnow
Space,
Welcome back. I wonder... did you vote for the first agreement, LOA 19?
Welcome back. I wonder... did you vote for the first agreement, LOA 19?
09-11-2008, 03:55 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
The vote ended up the way it did because that is how the pilot group voted, that may seem like an idiotic statement, but it's the entire backbone of what an organized labor union is all about. The pilot group has it's elected officials and they pitch major decisions, such as contract renewals, to the pilot group to vote on. There is no merit in disowning your pilot group if you vote one way and find out that the majority voted another way, this is the way of our democratic union representation.
Maybe we could have negotiated a better contract or maybe we would have lost all but some remnants of LOA 19, it's a gamble and a risk anyway you look at it. I do think it's important to negotiate and fight for the best possible contract, but I think it's equally, if not more, important to unify the pilot group.
Unified pilot group is better equipped to negotiate against management for the best possible contract.
A divided pilot group will endlessly bicker within their ranks and never bring real change to it's pilots.
Spliff, I admire your commitment in trying to improve the overall wages for all of us, we need people like you who are continuously looking to make things better, but at this point we are all better off backing our fellow pilots.
Maybe we could have negotiated a better contract or maybe we would have lost all but some remnants of LOA 19, it's a gamble and a risk anyway you look at it. I do think it's important to negotiate and fight for the best possible contract, but I think it's equally, if not more, important to unify the pilot group.
Unified pilot group is better equipped to negotiate against management for the best possible contract.
A divided pilot group will endlessly bicker within their ranks and never bring real change to it's pilots.
Spliff, I admire your commitment in trying to improve the overall wages for all of us, we need people like you who are continuously looking to make things better, but at this point we are all better off backing our fellow pilots.
09-11-2008, 04:24 AM
#17
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
In the ensuing months, I think that all of the DAL pilots will be happy with the way the vote was cast.
Lots is about ready to happen as soon as DCC. Do not believe it, just watch.
FWIW, NWA does need to furlough. Whether they will grant the 200 early outs that are needed to negate this is still up for debate.
Lots is about ready to happen as soon as DCC. Do not believe it, just watch.
FWIW, NWA does need to furlough. Whether they will grant the 200 early outs that are needed to negate this is still up for debate.
09-11-2008, 04:41 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: B717 FO
Posts: 210
Spliff,
Do you want to switch with me? I'll take your job with DELTA. You can have my job throwing boxes for UPS every weeknight getting paid $8.50/hr while my wife works long hours. All this just to pay the bills. You know what? I'm still happy because I have good health, a great family and I know this is all temporary. The flying jobs will get better in the future. I've known/worked with bitter people before and here is some free advice...
1. Relax and be happy with what you have. A lot of other people have it worse.
2. Control the things you can (flying safe) but be prepared for the things you can't (furlough).
3. Most folks don't want to be around a bitter, complaining person. Do your fellow crewmembers a favor and put your thoughts down on paper then send it your union and company reps. Leave it go at that point.
Good Luck and I'll say a prayer for you tonight. You need peace my friend.
C9
Do you want to switch with me? I'll take your job with DELTA. You can have my job throwing boxes for UPS every weeknight getting paid $8.50/hr while my wife works long hours. All this just to pay the bills. You know what? I'm still happy because I have good health, a great family and I know this is all temporary. The flying jobs will get better in the future. I've known/worked with bitter people before and here is some free advice...
1. Relax and be happy with what you have. A lot of other people have it worse.
2. Control the things you can (flying safe) but be prepared for the things you can't (furlough).
3. Most folks don't want to be around a bitter, complaining person. Do your fellow crewmembers a favor and put your thoughts down on paper then send it your union and company reps. Leave it go at that point.
Good Luck and I'll say a prayer for you tonight. You need peace my friend.
C9
09-11-2008, 05:21 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Delta Colors Busholio
Posts: 233
Originally Posted by DeadHead
The vote ended up the way it did because that is how the pilot group voted, that may seem like an idiotic statement, but it's the entire backbone of what an organized labor union is all about.
09-11-2008, 05:46 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
I voted no and encourage others to vote no however I respect the right of every pilot to vote for what he felt was best for their family. There would reasons to vote yes and reasons to vote no. The balance was different for each pilot. If I were a junior pilot I would have voted yes. Low pilot costs give the company more capital and room to expand and limit the chance of furloughs. Since I am senior a no vote was simple for me. There was nothing this contract offered me except 10 years of Chapter 11 wages.
As to your comments about your fellow pilots and how they choose to vote. Voting is a individual right. They looked at the pros and cons and voted for what they felt was best for their families. Since you feel as strongly as you do and I assume are a man of integrity then this must be your last month with the company. I am sure you have turned in your resignation and will be leaving us at the end of the month. I know there is no way you would continue to work with people you feel such contempt for or for a company you hate so much. Good luck in your new job and I hope it goes well for you.
As to your comments about your fellow pilots and how they choose to vote. Voting is a individual right. They looked at the pros and cons and voted for what they felt was best for their families. Since you feel as strongly as you do and I assume are a man of integrity then this must be your last month with the company. I am sure you have turned in your resignation and will be leaving us at the end of the month. I know there is no way you would continue to work with people you feel such contempt for or for a company you hate so much. Good luck in your new job and I hope it goes well for you.
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