Carl,

Compromises aren't all or nothing. Delta guys can compromise yet still retain the ratio as the basis of an agreement. You seem to want to paint us as intrasigent if we don't come off the basic premise of current ratio. What about my post? You characterize my response as "totally unnacceptable and illustrative of my many shortcomings". What does that mean? I was merely suggesting a modification of straight ratio, +attrition that you proposed. You overreacted and tried to characterize my proposal as unreasonable. Agree that a negotiated list is unlikely

Cog

 

[quote=Carl Spackler;496687]Carl, maybe I wasn't clear. I don't think that Virgin America has a large gauge narrow bodied category similar to a 757 so that wouldn't be an issue. Furthermore, VA doesn't have any wide bodied international category. If the companies are relatively the same contractually, with no major wind fall and you apply Nicolau's award, with both captains and first officers from the international wide bodied categories on top, and then all the 767/757 domestic captains and first officers, you would run through over half the list before the first VA captain got integrated. Not many 767 captains over 50% down the list. With no bump and no flush as well as some conditions ad restrictions for a modest period of time to protect the pre-merger upgrade to the A320 for VA first officers, you'd have a list that protected pre merger expectations and status. I think it's important to realize what each side brings, whether it took the VA captain 2 years or 10 years to bring that A320 Captain job to the merger, at the end of the day he brought it.

 

[quote=Reroute;496771]So, if you guys were merging with World, or Omni, or ATA before they went under, you would still be pushing for your slotted ratio seniority list?

Humm, that would be great for that 2001 hire at World who is now a DC-10 Captain.

 

[quote=newKnow;496889]I think you miss that "other" component of the slotted ratio system. That's job value. I don't care if your airplane is the biggest one in the system if it pays like poop, especially if you're going to use the argument that it can poop bigger than a smaller but equivalently paying aircraft. The slotted ratio system takes into account the value of what you bring to the table.

Oh, and remember, that's exactly how DAL did Pan Am and WAL, so there's a history. (Here's where you shout "it's not the same...)

Size matters, especially in compensation! Just ask your spouse!

 

Just to add another piece of meaningless info to this whole "my dad's bigger, my dad's richer" discussion..............the day prior to BOTH of us going into bankruptcy court, we made more than you guys did, YCLIU.

What I'm trying to say is, we all are trying to get back to something. Once again, thanks for supporting pay parity. I'll be gone by then, but REALLY good luck in section 6.

Ferd

 

[quote=newKnow;496889]I thought I mentioned if the two carriers were somewhat contractually similar. If they aren't, then you have to determine the value of that DC-10/MD-11 position.

How does DOH work if we eventually merge with CMR? DOH doesn't take into account job value, it doesn't balance equities, it's the same as assuming that a peso and a euro have the same value if they were minted on the same day. What matters is what a peso and a euro can buy you, similarly, what matters at NWA, DAL, CMR, Omni etc., is what your seniority number can buy you, not when your seniority number was minted.

 

I think this has always been the argument against a national seniority list. I agree there are different "tiers" in this profession. Like I said in another post, the difference between you, me and an RJ guy (or even an Omni guy) is we donated our interview suits to goodwill years ago.

Reroute, I am a major, international, legacy (how many adjectives can I come up with, oh yeah premium) airline pilot.......just like you.

 

Aw come on, don't sell yourself short. You're a tremendous slouch er...uh... I'm mean Super Premium!

 

Psssssst.........Deez, my wife and girlfriend agree on ONE thing, there is nothing premium about me

 

What on Earth are you talking about? You're the one who characterized me in the poor light...Remember?

Ring a bell?

It's hard to have a meaningful discussion if you don't even pay attention.

Carl