An Omen Of Things To Come?
12-25-2008, 10:18 AM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 593
Originally Posted by Nosmo King
The DAL
MEC has not agreed to our proposal and instead seeks to have all NWA grievance decisions be made by the Delta MEC structure.
MEC has not agreed to our proposal and instead seeks to have all NWA grievance decisions be made by the Delta MEC structure.
Last edited by Reroute; 12-25-2008 at 12:58 PM.
12-25-2008, 06:57 PM
#72
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,879
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
I'm with you Ferd. I think I'm probably done with APC as well. I was wondering why this place was becoming sadly familiar, then your "arguing with the ex-wife" analogy brought it all home.
Carl
Carl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGpQe...eature=related
Scoop
Last edited by Scoop; 12-25-2008 at 07:03 PM.
12-27-2008, 08:08 PM
#73
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
A little bird told me that the A330 has been penciled in on LAX-NRT as early as June 09. This will be over 12 hours once they get the flight time history established for the feds (A330 is operated at .82, optimum for the wing is ~.80)
I have been told but have not verified that the DAL MEC Chairman appoints most of the committee chairmen? At NWALPA they are elected by the MEC.
I hope the new MEC doesn't:
1. Give concessions on reconfiguring the crew bunk facility on the A330. (See existing language for flights between 8-12 hours).
2. Give a concession and let the company cram us in the Flight Attendant Rest Facility.
3. Staff the Crew Rest Facility Committee without an A330 pilot.
4. Put this on the back burner as an unimportant issue.
I have been told but have not verified that the DAL MEC Chairman appoints most of the committee chairmen? At NWALPA they are elected by the MEC.
I hope the new MEC doesn't:
1. Give concessions on reconfiguring the crew bunk facility on the A330. (See existing language for flights between 8-12 hours).
2. Give a concession and let the company cram us in the Flight Attendant Rest Facility.
3. Staff the Crew Rest Facility Committee without an A330 pilot.
4. Put this on the back burner as an unimportant issue.
12-28-2008, 09:40 AM
#75
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Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
Originally Posted by maddogmax
The plan is to take out the jumpseat and the rest seat in the existing bunk room and install two fixed bunks one on top of the other. Not much room or comfortable but legal.
Violates the current JPWA for flights more than 8 but less than 12 hours.
I don't think they plan on operating the modified aircraft only on flights longer than 12 hours. This is why I think we are headed for a CONCESSION. Of course they may just operate it on routes that have a flight time of 8-12 hours and tell us to file a grievance, since our grievances are at a standstill.
12-28-2008, 10:20 AM
#76
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: A330 capt
Posts: 236
Originally Posted by Nosmo King
Violates the current JPWA for flights more than 8 but less than 12 hours.
I don't think they plan on operating the modified aircraft only on flights longer than 12 hours. This is why I think we are headed for a CONCESSION. Of course they may just operate it on routes that have a flight time of 8-12 hours and tell us to file a grievance, since our grievances are at a standstill.
I don't think they plan on operating the modified aircraft only on flights longer than 12 hours. This is why I think we are headed for a CONCESSION. Of course they may just operate it on routes that have a flight time of 8-12 hours and tell us to file a grievance, since our grievances are at a standstill.
12-28-2008, 10:36 AM
#77
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Originally Posted by wiggy
Just curious, how does having two beds in the bunkroom violate the JPWA for flights between 8 and 12 hrs.?
It doesn't, the removal of the rest seat and the jump seat violates the JPWA.
Can't have 2 bunks and a rest seat and a jump seat, the compartment is too small.
16.C.2.d. on the A-330 aircraft:
1) the relief seat will be contained in a separate compartment located just aft of the
cockpit door which contains:
a) one fold-down bunk bed,
b) a fold-down relief seat, and
c) a jumpseat,
2) and is provided with a lockable door to the compartment.
12-28-2008, 11:02 AM
#78
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Delta Colors Busholio
Posts: 233
Originally Posted by maddogmax
The plan is to take out the jumpseat and the rest seat in the existing bunk room and install two fixed bunks one on top of the other. Not much room or comfortable but legal.
12-29-2008, 12:26 PM
#79
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: A330 capt
Posts: 236
Originally Posted by Nosmo King
It doesn't, the removal of the rest seat and the jump seat violates the JPWA.
Can't have 2 bunks and a rest seat and a jump seat, the compartment is too small.
16.C.2.d. on the A-330 aircraft:
1) the relief seat will be contained in a separate compartment located just aft of the
cockpit door which contains:
a) one fold-down bunk bed,
b) a fold-down relief seat, and
c) a jumpseat,
2) and is provided with a lockable door to the compartment.
Can't have 2 bunks and a rest seat and a jump seat, the compartment is too small.
16.C.2.d. on the A-330 aircraft:
1) the relief seat will be contained in a separate compartment located just aft of the
cockpit door which contains:
a) one fold-down bunk bed,
b) a fold-down relief seat, and
c) a jumpseat,
2) and is provided with a lockable door to the compartment.
Why 2 seats in the rest compartment? Is the JS in the rest compartment certified occupiable during T/O and landing? Horizontal racks are better than any business class seat, at least on the ER. (don't know about the new lie-flat BC seats) Two racks with no seats is better than forcing the 4th guy on >12hr flights to go to a BC seat (which he can't unless it is lie-flat) or "sleep with the F/As" (especially with their seniority on international!)(well, maybe you could on the layover if you've had enough to drink, and you are former Navy/Marine
) I would imagine we'll give them (managmnt) relief for two racks in the existing compartment, but not for the other options. We currently have 6 or 7 ERs modified with 2 racks (and no seats) for >12hr ops. They are wonderful if you happen to get one going to Europe, much better than the reclining BC seat....thus my prejudice for anything horizontal. (I have avoided 4 pilot, >12hr trips, though) BTW, how is your rest seat on your 757s for >8hr. ops? Ours sucks....seat 1A...doesn't recline very far....half-a$$ed curtains w/ no privacy......
) I would imagine we'll give them (managmnt) relief for two racks in the existing compartment, but not for the other options. We currently have 6 or 7 ERs modified with 2 racks (and no seats) for >12hr ops. They are wonderful if you happen to get one going to Europe, much better than the reclining BC seat....thus my prejudice for anything horizontal. (I have avoided 4 pilot, >12hr trips, though) BTW, how is your rest seat on your 757s for >8hr. ops? Ours sucks....seat 1A...doesn't recline very far....half-a$$ed curtains w/ no privacy......
12-29-2008, 10:10 PM
#80
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Originally Posted by wiggy
Why 2 seats in the rest compartment? Is the JS in the rest compartment certified occupiable during T/O and landing? Horizontal racks are better than any business class seat, at least on the ER. (don't know about the new lie-flat BC seats) Two racks with no seats is better than forcing the 4th guy on >12hr flights to go to a BC seat (which he can't unless it is lie-flat) or "sleep with the F/As" (especially with their seniority on international!)(well, maybe you could on the layover if you've had enough to drink, and you are former Navy/Marine) I would imagine we'll give them (managmnt) relief for two racks in the existing compartment, but not for the other options. We currently have 6 or 7 ERs modified with 2 racks (and no seats) for >12hr ops. They are wonderful if you happen to get one going to Europe, much better than the reclining BC seat....thus my prejudice for anything horizontal. (I have avoided 4 pilot, >12hr trips, though) BTW, how is your rest seat on your 757s for >8hr. ops? Ours sucks....seat 1A...doesn't recline very far....half-a$$ed curtains w/ no privacy......
) I would imagine we'll give them (managmnt) relief for two racks in the existing compartment, but not for the other options. We currently have 6 or 7 ERs modified with 2 racks (and no seats) for >12hr ops. They are wonderful if you happen to get one going to Europe, much better than the reclining BC seat....thus my prejudice for anything horizontal. (I have avoided 4 pilot, >12hr trips, though) BTW, how is your rest seat on your 757s for >8hr. ops? Ours sucks....seat 1A...doesn't recline very far....half-a$$ed curtains w/ no privacy......On the 747-400 there are two bunks stacked along with a rest seat in the compartment.
On the 747-400 and the A330 the BC seats are flat but not quite horizontal. I find them to be useless for sleep, but much better than a seat in steerage class.
As I mentioned in another thread, mamagement would have to remove:
a. Rest seat
b. Jump seat
c. PED power console (120V power plug identical to the biz class seats)
Things they would have to add:
Reading lights for the lower bunk. The current lights are all ceiling mounted/above the bunk including one on a gooseneck.
Oxygen mask for the lower bunk. The current oxygen setup is from a drop down panel in the ceiling (same as passenger cabin) and would be inaccessible from the lower bunk.
Air vent for lower bunk. Current configuration - one eyeball vent above the heater control on the wall opposite the bunk.
There is another piece of equipment against the aircraft skin where a second bunk would go, I don't know what it is, but it would also have to be removed.
Bag storage for a 4th pilot. There is currently enought room in the cockpit and the rest facility for three rollaboard suitcases. Sounds like the junior FO gets to stow his bag in biz class.
Sleeping in the FA bunks is a fatigue call waiting to happen. The FA schedule would have them parading in and out of the rest area in the middle of the pilot breaks.
There are other considerations but this post is already too long.
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coldpilot
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10-22-2008 12:37 PM
