Justdoinmyjob

I wouldn't say that he is overwhelmed or that it's a debacle, but I do think he has to prove himself to the pre-merger DL pilots. Regardless of all the "He's a great guy" posts by you guys, I'd like to form my own opinion please. And that can only be accomplished by viewing his actions and statements.

Seems to me every one of you brushed off our assertations that Moak was really out to get the best deal for ALL of us and that he wasn't the Bogey Man. It's the same thing.

Also, this thread was started by a NWer. Was there really a need to even start it?

Pineapple Guy

Carl,

Please accept this with the sincerity which it is posted. As you've seen, I am trying very hard to put the past behind us and move forward together. Having said that, which parts of Alfa's post do you say are "unbelievable"? All of the things he claims Ken stated on the National forum can be backed up by searching those forums. Ken said them. And the SLI transcripts show each of those to be a false statement. If Ken were just another line pilot stating his opinion, that would be one thing; but he's not. When he makes a definitive statement on a national forum, its presumed to be true because we all know his current ALPA position.

PG

Nosmo King

OK, here it is from someone other than Ken. Apparently the catalyst for this issue was Prater's call for a merged MEC by 19 Jan 2009. The following excerpt is only one of the 4 issues raised by the NWA MEC Officers in front of the Executive Council.

[THIS SPACE RESERVED FOR OBLIGATORY COMMENT ABOUT THE VERACITY OF PUBLICATIONS ISSUED BY NWA MEC]

<Excerpted from NWA MEC Officer Presentation to ALPA Executive Council>

2.

Lack of Compliance with Paragraph F. of the JCBA by Delta Management

Paragraph F. and the negotiating history provided for an expedited process to resolve
the more than 450 outstanding NWA pilot grievances, pre-grievances and worksheets.
The process was to begin within 30 days of CBAID and be done quickly. This
process would have kept the NWA MEC in charge of resolving its outstanding issues
under the NWA contract. Despite our efforts to begin this process, Delta management
has ignored or refused our efforts. As a result of Delta management’s lack of
engagement, there have been no meetings to date to begin the process required by
Paragraph F. An early combination of the MECs would frustrate Paragraph F. and the
goal of the NWA MEC and committees to resolve their own outstanding grievances.

On a related matter, immediately after the corporate closure of the merger (DCC),
Delta management directed Northwest management to suspend operation of the
bimonthly meetings with ALPA to resolve pre-grievances. The first sessions since
DCC are now scheduled to resume on December 16-17 and 19, 2008. This has
contributed to the size of our dispute backlog. Delta management has also refused to
schedule arbitrations for 2009 for outstanding NWA cases as required by Paragraph
F. of the JCBA and NWA LOA 2000-03A. As a result, there is no method to move
forward on any of the more than 450 pilot grievances, pre-grievances and worksheets
which are not resolved by discussions. Delta also postponed, over our objection, an
arbitration on our largest dollar amount grievance which was scheduled to be
arbitrated on December 16-17, 2008.

The NWA MEC has sought an agreement with the DAL MEC to allow the merger of
the MECs despite the Company’s conduct with respect to NWA grievances. We have
proposed that the NWA MEC Contract Administration Committee structure remain in
place after the MEC merger for the purpose of resolving these cases, including
deciding which cases to settle (and for how much), withdraw or arbitrate. The DAL
MEC has not agreed to our proposal and instead seeks to have all NWA grievance
decisions be made by the Delta MEC structure.

slowplay

To complete that loop, the Executive Council voted unanimously (including FNWA's/Delta's VP-Finance Randy Helling) voted to not delay the MEC merger. The MEC election has been called for January 17.

Nosmo King

Ooo, I need to call Randy and ask him about that ....

B7ER Guy

Well Carl.
I would love to believe you. But now, every time you write something I think of the following quote below posted by you.
I guess that makes you bizarro Carl.
Sorry, whatever you're selling, nobody's buying.

Carl Spackler

I'm with you Ferd. I think I'm probably done with APC as well. I was wondering why this place was becoming sadly familiar, then your "arguing with the ex-wife" analogy brought it all home.

Carl

B7ER Guy

Of course your arrogance of calling a Delta pilot a "pinhead" or accusing someone of having voices in his head has nothing to do with it, right?
I say AMF! Stop back when you have less time.

newKnow

Carl,

I'll take the credit for the "arguing with the ex-wife" analogy, but I hope it doesn't dissuade you from this forum. "Some" people on here are very informative and it is a great place for information.

I think I have just come to the realization that it is almost impossible to change "other" peoples mind or even to find the middle ground on issues, which is why apparently why there are a lot of lawyers out there making a lot of money.

Hopefully the inability to compromise doesn't follow people into the cockpit (opps, flight deck), because it is the opposite of CRM.

New K Now

acl65pilot

I think that you will find people doing this no matter what. Next year it is just going to be fighting in the union. Not union against union!