Why I'm Voting No
07-05-2017, 01:12 PM
#121
patience
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,068
[QUOTE=Bgood;2389792]
And in addition to this, scheduling has to call u and ASK u to extend BEFORE u time out. Else u cant accept it if u wish to cuz u already timed out.
It doesn't matter if they call you before you time out if they're asking you to work xyz additional leg. You can't do anything additional to what was on your schedule when your FDP started if it requires a 2-hour extension. If you're sitting reserve with one hour left on your FDP limit and scheduling calls you asking if you can do a DFW-SDF leg but need to accept an extension, you're being asked to do an illegal assignment. You shouldn't sit around tell the end of your FDP limit because once it's within 1.5 hours, it's almost impossible to legally work another flight.
Originally Posted by Bgood
And in addition to this, scheduling has to call u and ASK u to extend BEFORE u time out. Else u cant accept it if u wish to cuz u already timed out.
07-05-2017, 01:52 PM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,666
[QUOTE=Bgood;2389788]
No that's not the question. All extensions have to be due to unforeseen operational circumstances. I'm not suggesting otherwise.
Systemized is saying that even if there's an unforeseen operational circumstance, you can't be extended if you've had flying added to your schedule after your initial report time for that FDP.
For example, let's say you were scheduled to fly 2 legs and when you get back from the second leg, scheduling assigns you a third leg. That third leg was scheduled to get back before the end of your Table B max, but then an unforeseen operational circumstance delays that third leg so that now it will end after your Table B max.
Systemized says that because the third leg was added to your schedule after your show time for that FDP, you cannot accept an extension. I'm asking him where he is seeing that in 117.
Originally Posted by Systemized
It's black and white spelled out in 117. I can find the section if you want and post it but I'm certain 2-hour extensions for added flying is not legal. 2-two extensions are only legal for scheduled flying, flying that was on your schedule at your show time when your FDP began. In other words, once the FDP clock has started, you can't extend for added flying. You can only extend past your 117 table for delayed flights that were on your schedule......
Yes you cannot be extended just so they have u walk across to the next flight they just added to ur schedule. Example, U are operating a flight out of let's say Newark and u have 1hr of FDP left b4 u time out and suddenly ur airplane broke and takes 1.5 hrs to get it fix. That's wen scheduling will call to ASK you if u can take an extension for that UNFORSEEN circumstance. It is always up to u to accept it. If u feel ur getting too tired then NO, if u feel u can operate the flight safely then ok. Simple. That's what the UP TO 2 hr extension is for, unforseen circumstances.
U cant be sitting on reserve and they extend u for 2 more hrs to just sit there if that's wat the question was.
Here's a link
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/117.19
Yes you cannot be extended just so they have u walk across to the next flight they just added to ur schedule. Example, U are operating a flight out of let's say Newark and u have 1hr of FDP left b4 u time out and suddenly ur airplane broke and takes 1.5 hrs to get it fix. That's wen scheduling will call to ASK you if u can take an extension for that UNFORSEEN circumstance. It is always up to u to accept it. If u feel ur getting too tired then NO, if u feel u can operate the flight safely then ok. Simple. That's what the UP TO 2 hr extension is for, unforseen circumstances.
U cant be sitting on reserve and they extend u for 2 more hrs to just sit there if that's wat the question was.
Here's a link
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/117.19
Systemized is saying that even if there's an unforeseen operational circumstance, you can't be extended if you've had flying added to your schedule after your initial report time for that FDP.
For example, let's say you were scheduled to fly 2 legs and when you get back from the second leg, scheduling assigns you a third leg. That third leg was scheduled to get back before the end of your Table B max, but then an unforeseen operational circumstance delays that third leg so that now it will end after your Table B max.
Systemized says that because the third leg was added to your schedule after your show time for that FDP, you cannot accept an extension. I'm asking him where he is seeing that in 117.
07-05-2017, 02:23 PM
#123
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 918
[QUOTE=Systemized;2389925]
It doesn't matter if they call you before you time out if they're asking you to work xyz additional leg. You can't do anything additional to what was on your schedule when your FDP started if it requires a 2-hour extension. If you're sitting reserve with one hour left on your FDP limit and scheduling calls you asking if you can do a DFW-SDF leg but need to accept an extension, you're being asked to do an illegal assignment. You shouldn't sit around tell the end of your FDP limit because once it's within 1.5 hours, it's almost impossible to legally work another flight.
Im talking about if ur already on a scheduled flight and something happens, I was making an additional comment to the example I provided in my first post.
Originally Posted by Bgood
It doesn't matter if they call you before you time out if they're asking you to work xyz additional leg. You can't do anything additional to what was on your schedule when your FDP started if it requires a 2-hour extension. If you're sitting reserve with one hour left on your FDP limit and scheduling calls you asking if you can do a DFW-SDF leg but need to accept an extension, you're being asked to do an illegal assignment. You shouldn't sit around tell the end of your FDP limit because once it's within 1.5 hours, it's almost impossible to legally work another flight.
07-05-2017, 02:28 PM
#124
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 918
[QUOTE=Xdashdriver;2389939]
No that's not the question. All extensions have to be due to unforeseen operational circumstances. I'm not suggesting otherwise.
Systemized is saying that even if there's an unforeseen operational circumstance, you can't be extended if you've had flying added to your schedule after your initial report time for that FDP.
For example, let's say you were scheduled to fly 2 legs and when you get back from the second leg, scheduling assigns you a third leg. That third leg was scheduled to get back before the end of your Table B max, but then an unforeseen operational circumstance delays that third leg so that now it will end after your Table B max.
Systemized says that because the third leg was added to your schedule after your show time for that FDP, you cannot accept an extension. I'm asking him where he is seeing that in 117.
You are correct there. In ur example the added flight wasn't gonna go over ur table B max initially. So u started loading up to takeoff and the plane breaks, now it will go over ur Table B max.....they can call and ASK if u can take an extension due to that unforeseen circumstance.
It doesnt matter if the flight was an added flight, the fact that it was to be completed within Table B limits but unforseen happens while ur operating it, warrants a legal ASK for extension.
Originally Posted by Bgood
No that's not the question. All extensions have to be due to unforeseen operational circumstances. I'm not suggesting otherwise.
Systemized is saying that even if there's an unforeseen operational circumstance, you can't be extended if you've had flying added to your schedule after your initial report time for that FDP.
For example, let's say you were scheduled to fly 2 legs and when you get back from the second leg, scheduling assigns you a third leg. That third leg was scheduled to get back before the end of your Table B max, but then an unforeseen operational circumstance delays that third leg so that now it will end after your Table B max.
Systemized says that because the third leg was added to your schedule after your show time for that FDP, you cannot accept an extension. I'm asking him where he is seeing that in 117.
You are correct there. In ur example the added flight wasn't gonna go over ur table B max initially. So u started loading up to takeoff and the plane breaks, now it will go over ur Table B max.....they can call and ASK if u can take an extension due to that unforeseen circumstance.
It doesnt matter if the flight was an added flight, the fact that it was to be completed within Table B limits but unforseen happens while ur operating it, warrants a legal ASK for extension.
07-05-2017, 02:30 PM
#125
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 2,145
Originally Posted by MAGNegotiations
32.99 is industry standard. Pay rates on Airline Pilot Central are not accurate to contracted pay rates with FOs. This information was derived from the ALPA contract archives. We didn't just make this number up. Research was done. Maybe do some more research rather than just using APC.
For example: the contract pay rates for Envoy is 25.84 (2015-2017) then 26.10 (2018). Envoy has an LOA that starts FO's at year 4 which is 39.78 (2015 - 2017).
ALPA is always looking for volunteers. I suggest you give it a try.
For example: the contract pay rates for Envoy is 25.84 (2015-2017) then 26.10 (2018). Envoy has an LOA that starts FO's at year 4 which is 39.78 (2015 - 2017).
ALPA is always looking for volunteers. I suggest you give it a try.
07-05-2017, 02:44 PM
#126
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by calmwinds
If you go directly to the Envoy Air website, their hourly rate for First Year FOs is $38. They have a bonus on top of that bringing the total first year compensation to $60k. It is just sad!
07-05-2017, 02:47 PM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 918
Originally Posted by calmwinds
If you go directly to the Envoy Air website, their hourly rate for First Year FOs is $38. They have a bonus on top of that bringing the total first year compensation to $60k. It is just sad!
APC might lag by 1 to 2 months but they update their stuff
07-05-2017, 02:47 PM
#128
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by MAGNegotiations
32.99 is industry standard. Pay rates on Airline Pilot Central are not accurate to contracted pay rates with FOs. This information was derived from the ALPA contract archives. We didn't just make this number up. Research was done. Maybe do some more research rather than just using APC.
For example: the contract pay rates for Envoy is 25.84 (2015-2017) then 26.10 (2018). Envoy has an LOA that starts FO's at year 4 which is 39.78 (2015 - 2017).
ALPA is always looking for volunteers. I suggest you give it a try.
For example: the contract pay rates for Envoy is 25.84 (2015-2017) then 26.10 (2018). Envoy has an LOA that starts FO's at year 4 which is 39.78 (2015 - 2017).
ALPA is always looking for volunteers. I suggest you give it a try.
07-05-2017, 03:01 PM
#129
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 918
Originally Posted by MAGNegotiations
[correction LOA starts New Hires at year 3 ($37.90), the pay rate for year 4 is correct.]
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional/envoy_air
Check it out.
It also says after 1 year of service FOs will go to year 4 pay. I will ask a friend of mine (that works at Envoy) to verify this....just to measure how accurate APC is.
And dont think im attacking you MagNeg, its just my allergies acting up.
07-05-2017, 03:09 PM
#130
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by Bgood
Same thing ur saying is the same thing APC says:
Envoy Air | AirlinePilotCentral.com
Check it out.
It also says after 1 year of service FOs will go to year 4 pay. I will ask a friend of mine (that works at Envoy) to verify this....just to measure how accurate APC is.
Envoy Air | AirlinePilotCentral.com
Check it out.
It also says after 1 year of service FOs will go to year 4 pay. I will ask a friend of mine (that works at Envoy) to verify this....just to measure how accurate APC is.
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