Training Department Culture
11-16-2022, 11:44 AM
#1
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2022
Position: Pilot
Posts: 10
Training Department Culture
I’ve got a class a date with Mesa coming up. I’ve also got interviews with a couple other regionals, so I’m considering all my options and trying to do my homework. I was looking at PSA and stumbled across that DontFlyForPSA website, along with quite a bit of commentary on social media and these forums regarding the training department at PSA and certain individuals who work there. Of course, it is the internet, something something grain of salt.
But it did get me wondering, how is the training department at Mesa perceived? I’m eyeballing the CRJ as my equipment of choice.
But it did get me wondering, how is the training department at Mesa perceived? I’m eyeballing the CRJ as my equipment of choice.
11-16-2022, 12:16 PM
#2
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2022
Posts: 27
I went through initial training last year and just finished my first recurrent. It’s about as spoon fed as a 121 airline can be. If you’ve struggled in past training events you may struggle here just from the volume of information. If you’re the average person it’ll be study before class, show up to class, study for the next days class, sleep, and repeat. Not easy but manageable. They have a 12 page limitation’s study guide you’ll have access to before class. I recommend having that completely memorized before day one. There’s online mesa Crj quizlets out there that help. Everything else is just learn as you go.
Some instructors can be boring and it’ll seem like death by powerpoint. Others have good sense of humor and class doesn’t go by as slow. The examiners are very fair. No trick questions, you get really good gouge. Mostly rote memory limitations type questions. My sim partner really struggled. They redid 5 sims with him and he just couldn’t get the v1 cuts satisfactory. They gave him every opportunity to succeed. I’ve heard horror stories about other training departments from friends who went to other airlines. But I’m sure there are bad stories about ours as well. Show up prepared and put in the work I’m sure you’ll do just fine. FWIW I did have a classmate who went through PSA’s training he preferred Mesa’s.
Some instructors can be boring and it’ll seem like death by powerpoint. Others have good sense of humor and class doesn’t go by as slow. The examiners are very fair. No trick questions, you get really good gouge. Mostly rote memory limitations type questions. My sim partner really struggled. They redid 5 sims with him and he just couldn’t get the v1 cuts satisfactory. They gave him every opportunity to succeed. I’ve heard horror stories about other training departments from friends who went to other airlines. But I’m sure there are bad stories about ours as well. Show up prepared and put in the work I’m sure you’ll do just fine. FWIW I did have a classmate who went through PSA’s training he preferred Mesa’s.
11-16-2022, 12:49 PM
#3
On Reserve
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Joined APC: Oct 2022
Position: Pilot
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by Mando0530
They redid 5 sims with him
11-16-2022, 03:53 PM
#4
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Joined APC: Nov 2022
Posts: 28
I'm a PSA washout who ended up at Mesa.
Yes Mesa's training department is one of, if not, the best there is. Comparing it to PSA is a joke.
PSA has the 121 checkride setup as an LOE.
While Mesa has it setup as a MV.
The way psa has it, is that you must pass both the MV and LOE, and A LOT the LOE, which gives them a Pria mark. They expect you to be captain level (no kidding) even if you come from a Cessna. I know the korny saying "we only train captains" but let's get real here. You are just a number over there and they don't care about you.
The way Mesa has it, is the 121 checkride is just the MV, and all this LOE crap you learn during your IOE. This is literally the best way to go. Give them a checkride to see if they know flows, triggers, callouts, approaches.... Then deal the the 121 rules in IOE (changing altimeter setting past 18k feet where people failed at PSA, not turning on anti ice in clouds where people failed, not having a seatbelt on where people failed, etc.)
Granted a lot of the good instructors at Mesa left for other airlines, but they still have great ones who are actual line pilots. The crj only has two examiners, KR and SV, who are both great people. SV's ATP oral was killer hard, but still he's good.
Everyone at Mesa is fantastic. The training department is great. My line instructor was great. Nothing but good things to say about Mesa.
There are people who washed out of Mesa in my class, but they just couldn't keep up with the plane and I do not see any discrimination at all. It was honest failures.
Note: the above is specific to the CRJ department only. The Ejet is a whole other completly different ballpark, and I don't know anything of it.
Yes Mesa's training department is one of, if not, the best there is. Comparing it to PSA is a joke.
PSA has the 121 checkride setup as an LOE.
While Mesa has it setup as a MV.
The way psa has it, is that you must pass both the MV and LOE, and A LOT the LOE, which gives them a Pria mark. They expect you to be captain level (no kidding) even if you come from a Cessna. I know the korny saying "we only train captains" but let's get real here. You are just a number over there and they don't care about you.
The way Mesa has it, is the 121 checkride is just the MV, and all this LOE crap you learn during your IOE. This is literally the best way to go. Give them a checkride to see if they know flows, triggers, callouts, approaches.... Then deal the the 121 rules in IOE (changing altimeter setting past 18k feet where people failed at PSA, not turning on anti ice in clouds where people failed, not having a seatbelt on where people failed, etc.)
Granted a lot of the good instructors at Mesa left for other airlines, but they still have great ones who are actual line pilots. The crj only has two examiners, KR and SV, who are both great people. SV's ATP oral was killer hard, but still he's good.
Everyone at Mesa is fantastic. The training department is great. My line instructor was great. Nothing but good things to say about Mesa.
There are people who washed out of Mesa in my class, but they just couldn't keep up with the plane and I do not see any discrimination at all. It was honest failures.
Note: the above is specific to the CRJ department only. The Ejet is a whole other completly different ballpark, and I don't know anything of it.
11-17-2022, 07:06 PM
#5
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,471
Originally Posted by UsernameTakennn
I'm a PSA washout who ended up at Mesa.
Yes Mesa's training department is one of, if not, the best there is. Comparing it to PSA is a joke.
PSA has the 121 checkride setup as an LOE.
While Mesa has it setup as a MV.
The way psa has it, is that you must pass both the MV and LOE, and A LOT the LOE, which gives them a Pria mark. They expect you to be captain level (no kidding) even if you come from a Cessna. I know the korny saying "we only train captains" but let's get real here. You are just a number over there and they don't care about you.
The way Mesa has it, is the 121 checkride is just the MV, and all this LOE crap you learn during your IOE. This is literally the best way to go. Give them a checkride to see if they know flows, triggers, callouts, approaches.... Then deal the the 121 rules in IOE (changing altimeter setting past 18k feet where people failed at PSA, not turning on anti ice in clouds where people failed, not having a seatbelt on where people failed, etc.)
Granted a lot of the good instructors at Mesa left for other airlines, but they still have great ones who are actual line pilots. The crj only has two examiners, KR and SV, who are both great people. SV's ATP oral was killer hard, but still he's good.
Everyone at Mesa is fantastic. The training department is great. My line instructor was great. Nothing but good things to say about Mesa.
There are people who washed out of Mesa in my class, but they just couldn't keep up with the plane and I do not see any discrimination at all. It was honest failures.
Note: the above is specific to the CRJ department only. The Ejet is a whole other completly different ballpark, and I don't know anything of it.
Yes Mesa's training department is one of, if not, the best there is. Comparing it to PSA is a joke.
PSA has the 121 checkride setup as an LOE.
While Mesa has it setup as a MV.
The way psa has it, is that you must pass both the MV and LOE, and A LOT the LOE, which gives them a Pria mark. They expect you to be captain level (no kidding) even if you come from a Cessna. I know the korny saying "we only train captains" but let's get real here. You are just a number over there and they don't care about you.
The way Mesa has it, is the 121 checkride is just the MV, and all this LOE crap you learn during your IOE. This is literally the best way to go. Give them a checkride to see if they know flows, triggers, callouts, approaches.... Then deal the the 121 rules in IOE (changing altimeter setting past 18k feet where people failed at PSA, not turning on anti ice in clouds where people failed, not having a seatbelt on where people failed, etc.)
Granted a lot of the good instructors at Mesa left for other airlines, but they still have great ones who are actual line pilots. The crj only has two examiners, KR and SV, who are both great people. SV's ATP oral was killer hard, but still he's good.
Everyone at Mesa is fantastic. The training department is great. My line instructor was great. Nothing but good things to say about Mesa.
There are people who washed out of Mesa in my class, but they just couldn't keep up with the plane and I do not see any discrimination at all. It was honest failures.
Note: the above is specific to the CRJ department only. The Ejet is a whole other completly different ballpark, and I don't know anything of it.
You are a real winner.
11-18-2022, 09:05 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 428
Originally Posted by dera
Not even understanding the difference between AQP and 121 training, complaining about PIC level standards on a PIC type rating.
You are a real winner.
You are a real winner.
11-23-2022, 05:05 AM
#7
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by Throwitaway
Don't get the wash outs spooled up. They expected a participation medal cause they've been coddled and taught to test mins their whole career. Zero command aptitude so it's unfair to be held to pic standards. Losers
11-23-2022, 07:28 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2022
Posts: 452
Originally Posted by Richmond454
It's a PIC type but not really. U fly with PIC limitations on your certificate. Need to fly a minimum of 1000 hrs on the line before you even get to attempt to upgrade. Then if you pass the captain upgrade training and sims you need a FED ride before you're a PIC. So yeah. It's officially a PIC type but in reality its far from it. I've been through 3 and currently going through a 4th 121/AQP type training and I do agree Mesa CRJ has a good training department when I was going through.
Also a Fed ride is a joke, you’re evaluated on one leg, and as long as you don’t violate a reg or crash, you’re signed off.
11-24-2022, 03:05 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Posts: 446
Originally Posted by bonvoyage
Mesa is the ONLY airline that I’ve ever heard of putting an SOE limitation (Subject to Pilot in Command) on a certificate. It is a PIC type rating. Pt.121 regulations and type ratings have nothing to do with one another. There are E170/190/CRJ operators that fly the planes under pt.91 or 135. There’s no reason to put it on there. Why do they do that? Does the Mesa training department hope people won’t be able to leave with that limitation??
Also a Fed ride is a joke, you’re evaluated on one leg, and as long as you don’t violate a reg or crash, you’re signed off.
Also a Fed ride is a joke, you’re evaluated on one leg, and as long as you don’t violate a reg or crash, you’re signed off.
11-24-2022, 05:34 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 921
Originally Posted by kevin18
The pic limitation is a paperwork shuffle post ioe. Why they put it in there I don’t know probably something they’ve always done and no one knows why. I’ll ask an APD next time I see em. The limitation is about as tough to get removed as the fed ride.
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