Mesa Terminates Pilot Training Program (FMN)
#21
If this is some kind of 'regional scam', busting pilots on purpose, then fine - who are we talking about? But, then again, why would anyone seek employment with a company known to do this?
Sorry for the thread drift. The Farmington program produced good pilots from what I'd heard from Mesa Training Department contacts in the past. Too bad that the program is going away. Perhaps that only proves that the program wasn't a huge money machine for Mesa, but was rather only about producing a good product (albeit a pilot with little chance of leaving Mesa for a couple years, so Mesa did benefit some too), rather than a place that just rubber stamped ratings or sent anyone with a pulse and a fist full of cash to the right seat. Sadly, those programs are still around. There's a pilot shortage after all, no?
#22
Airline ops occur in a multi-layered bubble of protections which insidiously encourage complacency. Nothing like 1000+ hours of piston 91/135 to teach you that things can and will eventually go wrong.
IMO it takes a low-timer a lot longer to learn certain basics in the airline world...and he might never learn them in a jet.
#23
But the problem with colgan is at least the CA had very low time when he started at colgan. IMO that is a recipe for diasaster...face it, there are some things you simply don't learn in a 121 cockpit.
Airline ops occur in a multi-layered bubble of protections which insidiously encourage complacency. Nothing like 1000+ hours of piston 91/135 to teach you that things can and will eventually go wrong.
Airline ops occur in a multi-layered bubble of protections which insidiously encourage complacency. Nothing like 1000+ hours of piston 91/135 to teach you that things can and will eventually go wrong.
I do agree with the new ATP Requirement.....it can only help increase safety
Last edited by Aquapilot; 11-06-2009 at 07:24 AM. Reason: Adding comment
#24
I agree that the ATP is a great idea. In fact, because we know that mistakes in the flight deck can be attributed to low experience, and in light of this recent NW MSP overfly, I have written my congressman to suggest that it is dangerous to have inexperienced crew like that in the flight deck as well and want legislation to mandate nothing short of 20000 hours (the FO only had 11000 or so hours!!!) to make sure something like this cannot happen again.
#25
Once they get disillusioned, lose interest, and wander off we then have to contend with the next batch...who perpetually drive down the lowest common denominator.
About half of the recent entrants that I see don't really belong here...they would be better off and we would be better off if they were in another line of work. I'd like to educate them before they waste their time and money and become our problem.
About half of the recent entrants that I see don't really belong here...they would be better off and we would be better off if they were in another line of work. I'd like to educate them before they waste their time and money and become our problem.
Just last week I heard this exact quote from a six month instructor~
"I was supposed to be at an airline by now..if I have to do this (instruct) for another six months I'll quit."
To add insult to injury..it wasn't that long ago that the powers that be cut the pay almost in half for incoming instructors and we still have no shortage of guys who show up willing to do everything including wash the owners car for a few flight hours. I ask them how they can work for less than what the rest are being paid and the reply usually is along the lines of ..well its just for a few months until I get hired or something asinine like that
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 926
This ATP requirement is going to lead to a shortage of people with 1500 hours willing to work for regional airlines and a subsequent move toward a "frozen ATP" like the JAA/EASA countries (states?) of Europe.
....a system where only the rich get to play and any idiot with the money can find himself with a "frozen" ATPL, 200-some hours and a direct entry into the right seat of a mainline aircraft.
This 1500 hour ATP requirement is a bad thing....no matter how well intentioned, it will backfire and not work to our benefit.
Remember, you heard it here first.
#27
No, it is not.
This ATP requirement is going to lead to a shortage of people with 1500 hours willing to work for regional airlines and a subsequent move toward a "frozen ATP" like the JAA/EASA countries (states?) of Europe.
....a system where only the rich get to play and any idiot with the money can find himself with a "frozen" ATPL, 200-some hours and a direct entry into the right seat of a mainline aircraft.
This 1500 hour ATP requirement is a bad thing....no matter how well intentioned, it will backfire and not work to our benefit.
Remember, you heard it here first.
This ATP requirement is going to lead to a shortage of people with 1500 hours willing to work for regional airlines and a subsequent move toward a "frozen ATP" like the JAA/EASA countries (states?) of Europe.
....a system where only the rich get to play and any idiot with the money can find himself with a "frozen" ATPL, 200-some hours and a direct entry into the right seat of a mainline aircraft.
This 1500 hour ATP requirement is a bad thing....no matter how well intentioned, it will backfire and not work to our benefit.
Remember, you heard it here first.
#28
No, it is not.
This ATP requirement is going to lead to a shortage of people with 1500 hours willing to work for regional airlines and a subsequent move toward a "frozen ATP" like the JAA/EASA countries (states?) of Europe.
....a system where only the rich get to play and any idiot with the money can find himself with a "frozen" ATPL, 200-some hours and a direct entry into the right seat of a mainline aircraft.
This 1500 hour ATP requirement is a bad thing....no matter how well intentioned, it will backfire and not work to our benefit.
Remember, you heard it here first.
This ATP requirement is going to lead to a shortage of people with 1500 hours willing to work for regional airlines and a subsequent move toward a "frozen ATP" like the JAA/EASA countries (states?) of Europe.
....a system where only the rich get to play and any idiot with the money can find himself with a "frozen" ATPL, 200-some hours and a direct entry into the right seat of a mainline aircraft.
This 1500 hour ATP requirement is a bad thing....no matter how well intentioned, it will backfire and not work to our benefit.
Remember, you heard it here first.
Lenders will stop producing loans for places like Flight Safety and ATP as the number of defaults are skyrocketing.
Believe it or not, not every individual that wanted to get into aviation was actually able to get into aviation back in the day. Also, not every one of them had to pay for their education as most aviation universities had scholarship programs for those fortunate to be picked out of the hundreds that wanted to go.
This will help aid getting the best of the best again. Now, we still have to get wages back up across the board
#29
No, it is not.
This ATP requirement is going to lead to a shortage of people with 1500 hours willing to work for regional airlines and a subsequent move toward a "frozen ATP" like the JAA/EASA countries (states?) of Europe.
....a system where only the rich get to play and any idiot with the money can find himself with a "frozen" ATPL, 200-some hours and a direct entry into the right seat of a mainline aircraft.
This 1500 hour ATP requirement is a bad thing....no matter how well intentioned, it will backfire and not work to our benefit.
Remember, you heard it here first.
This ATP requirement is going to lead to a shortage of people with 1500 hours willing to work for regional airlines and a subsequent move toward a "frozen ATP" like the JAA/EASA countries (states?) of Europe.
....a system where only the rich get to play and any idiot with the money can find himself with a "frozen" ATPL, 200-some hours and a direct entry into the right seat of a mainline aircraft.
This 1500 hour ATP requirement is a bad thing....no matter how well intentioned, it will backfire and not work to our benefit.
Remember, you heard it here first.
If we go to a frozen ATP, we would be right back where we started...250-hour airline pilots, which almost everyone (even the public and congress) can see is a bad thing.
The Europeans get away with it because they really have no other means of acquiring flight time and because their standards are much higher.
If we included european-style ground school and testing for the frozen ATP that would not be so bad at all. It would require real effort and dedication to complete the training...that would scare off many of our entry-level types today. And the airlines would have to pay well enough to attract the type of individual who can excel in school...ie people with other options.
Not sure why you would need to be rich though? But here's a fact of life: money makes almost anything easier. You can enjoy comforts above and beyond your current payscale and you don't have to stress so much over the economic consequences of failure.
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 191
???? makes no sense at all.
If we go to a frozen ATP, we would be right back where we started...250-hour airline pilots, which almost everyone (even the public and congress) can see is a bad thing.
The Europeans get away with it because they really have no other means of acquiring flight time and because their standards are much higher.
If we included european-style ground school and testing for the frozen ATP that would not be so bad at all. It would require real effort and dedication to complete the training...that would scare off many of our entry-level types today. And the airlines would have to pay well enough to attract the type of individual who can excel in school...ie people with other options.
Not sure why you would need to be rich though? But here's a fact of life: money makes almost anything easier. You can enjoy comforts above and beyond your current payscale and you don't have to stress so much over the economic consequences of failure.
If we go to a frozen ATP, we would be right back where we started...250-hour airline pilots, which almost everyone (even the public and congress) can see is a bad thing.
The Europeans get away with it because they really have no other means of acquiring flight time and because their standards are much higher.
If we included european-style ground school and testing for the frozen ATP that would not be so bad at all. It would require real effort and dedication to complete the training...that would scare off many of our entry-level types today. And the airlines would have to pay well enough to attract the type of individual who can excel in school...ie people with other options.
Not sure why you would need to be rich though? But here's a fact of life: money makes almost anything easier. You can enjoy comforts above and beyond your current payscale and you don't have to stress so much over the economic consequences of failure.
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