Yeah, sorry if I wasn't clear. Some guys from my class got a line the first month out of IOE. They do it to consolidate you. Of course there are notenough lines open to give to everyone. Once you get that 100 hours you will be on reserve and get random flights until you get an actual line.

You got lucky mang. Enjoy!

 

Ah ok, makes sense, thanks!

 

The point you're missing is that if pilots would stop selling out and working for the "bottom feeders", then those "bottom feeders" would have no choice other than improving the pay and benefits to staff those places! The cheerleading being done for employment with J.O., Hulas, and B.B., etc. is not helpful to the profession, or any employees of those "bottom feeders" in attaining improvements in their respective contracts!

 

^^^^^ THIS....

Oh and PSA did have a choice. They chose to stab Eagle pilots in the back after they signed off saying they wouldn't accept the same crap package Eagle turned down... Scumbags.

 

^ plus 1....

 

WRONG. If people stop coming to Mesa (or wherever else), the legacies will simply shift the flying around to other regionals (or create more regionals if they need to).

There is nothing to be gained at the regional level--the only thing regional pilots can do is price ourselves out of existence.

Go talk to a Pinnacle/Mesaba/Comair pilot about how it worked out for them when they finally got the contracts they fought so hard for. Maybe then you'll realize that no-shows for new hire classes and improved contracts at the regional level simply mean misery, furloughs, and downgrades for everyone.

 

All true. I also remember when Eagle signed a 16 year contract.... not exactly helpful for many way back then.

 

I know that sounds good saying it but.... its just NOT realistic. Thats not how capitalism works. I agree it does suck that the industry has gotten to the point where first year pay is what it is but that's life guys and gals. The ONLY thing that will change that is what the market dictates. Pay, if you have notice has made a turn in an upward trend in the form of bonuses because pilots with 1500 hours and background check that go through are becoming a bit on the unavailable side. No company has raised the actual pay yet because the liability of that would create should we experience another downturn economically.

Pointing fingers at what some other pilot group voted for or not is a futile attempt to put yourselves up on some kind of high horse. Educate yourselves on the bigger picture of how these corporations operate. There are few ways you will see better pay and benefits, one of them being created by the shortage of qualified candidates for the regionals brought on by the 1500 hr rule. This is the best thing legislatively that could have happened in both safety and in what the future implications have on pilot pay. You cant really legislate pay unless you're talking about the minimum wage. A little history, benefits offered by a company were created to draw potential employees to work for them. Pay is not the only factor to being an attractive employer. I don't bring this up to discuss benefits but to point out that during the last economic down turn country wide, businesses had an abundance of potential employees with so many people out of work and looking for employment. They had NO need to create incentives to work for them. Just having a position for whatever crap pay was enough. The mainline carriers found more efficient ways to operate during the recession. A big part of that was to look to the regionals and look for bidders in lower contracts. In short, if PSA said no all AAG would have done is found another regional to take the flying and then you would be complaining about them instead. If its not painfully obvious to you, and I dont think it is, but had Envoy said no again to the last contract that AAG wanted them to have they would have been in probably a 2 year shutting down period where aircraft were shipped off and laid off employees just went to work for these other operations you so dearly hate. As we all know, the planes started being send to other operators right after the no votes. Now if that dosent tell you how little bargaining power Envoy had I dont know what else could. PSA said yes and got a mess load of planes and job security for a long time to come.

If you want to truly improve the Airline industry, stop complaining, pay money into your PAC, tell your buddies to pay into their respective PAC's and get pilots taken off the Railroad Act. That is the ONLY true way any of us will have a voice in contract negotiations. (Probably not going to happen though, politically that is) Of course like I said, one other way is if the market dictates it. If the pilot shortage reaches a fever pitch that the regionals have to start offering better and better pay/benefits to draw potential applicants.

As far as the cheerleading you speak of... I dont see that. What I see is people that work for Mesa or PSA or any of the other "bottom feeders" you speak of see opportunity to further their respective careers. And, to an even more obvious point, maybe its just most advantageous for someone to work for a regional that operates out of their home town as others have said.

If you would like to counter, please offer some actual debate other than pointing out the tired talking points that you ***** about day in and out.

 

Well put, much more to the point than my wall of text.

 

True, as long as pilots continue to participate in the race to the bottom, the die is cast. Wanna talk about Comair - they were killed off by the non-specific scumbaggery of other pilots. Comair was terminal the day that Chautauqua and Freedom showed up on the A gates in CVG. Why would anyone go to RAH or Mesa/Freedom at the time, with the contract that they had/have, when there were so many better options? Because they were growing and upgrading and getting the shiniest of jets. And how many of them just ended up working under a crappier contract/furloughed from Mesa/ displaced/ etc. without the quick upgrade? 1000 or more? Every one has their variation on the justification of "doing what is best for me and mine". But regardless of their own personal win or loss - every one of them contributed to the sucking sound this industry is making. And that is just one example. Those who have been around a while can recall many similar situations. GoJet? Skywest and the ace they dealt? The list goes on, most every group did something either big or small along the way, and the true repercussions may not have been felt until most of those responsible were no longer there.

Chasing new A/C and a quick upgrade negates any and all other benefits of collective bargaining and pattern bargaining. We are in a post-union situation, because pay and QOL provisions of CBAs have become irrelevant. They have been superseded by the shiny jet and upgradez. If you do not win the lottery of timing a quick upgrade you will be SOL - because of the next group that shows up with the low-ball deal. Wash, rinse, repeat. We (pilots in general) seem incapable of acting in our own self interest beyond the immediate gratification of the now. On the surface, cause and effect have been disconnected, and the strings are pulled by those who truly benefit over the long term. The enemy is us.