Originally Posted by Pullout

We're already getting more Ejets (3-4 for sure this year) so I hope the new hires that are able to vote don't help solidify a crappy contract with the selfish thought that it will guarantee us more planes so they can 'upgrade, do their time and move on.' Ask thousands of regional Captains out there how that's worked out thus far.

If we as a pilot group vote in this bottom feeding contract, it will stick with every Mesa pilot throughout our career. When we sit across the interview board of a legacy, will you be able to justify how you voted? Think GoJet 1.0. Or the original Freedom. (No, it's not as bad as alter ego airlines, but we are being asked to take a subpar contract in a time when demand is starting to outpace supply) We will be stuck with the stigma of keeping the industry at crappy levels for at least the next five years out of pure selfishness.

Here is one more thing that should have been discussed by now. The company has shown ALPA their costs. Great. Our profits are razor thin just like other regionals. Understood. What also needs to be understood is that Skywest has near the same margin, but is able to pay their pilots around $10/hour greater (at my specific type/seat/year). They can do this because their leadership actually has someone that can negotiate a contract with legacies that can make a small profit while also supporting decent wages for their pilots. We do not have leadership that can do that. Any schmuck could have gone to AA or UA and said, "If you give us more flying we will do the flying cheaper than anyone else.....because we refuse to pay our people a decent wage."

Do you think our upper management wasn't counting on maintaining status quo crappy treatment of our pilot group into 2020 when they made all those great 'long term' flying contracts? Why didn't they make those contracts a little more profitable so they could actually give us a raise....or even just keep us equal with inflation.

Lets ditch the Stockholm syndrome. Lets vote this down, show management we're done being treated this poorly. This TA is an insult. Even more important, lets show the board they have an inept leader at the helm that can only negotiate business if the employees stay complacent to poor treatment. [Insert Twisted Sister - We're Not Gonna Take It]

Originally Posted by Q400winner

Thank god someone understands this industry. All these new inexperienced 175 captains are entirely unaware.

Originally Posted by flapshalfspeed

I had 3,000 hours 121 turbine time--mostly in JFK/LGA--before even touching the left seat of the EJet at Mesa. Yes, there are lots of newbie green guys who have no business in the left seat blasting around feeling important with their wing-mounted engines and VNAV. Yes--we need to have higher mins for upgrade (ooops left that out of this TA also).

I agree with you completely though--our upgrade mins are way too low. However, there are guys on the 900 in DFW who have the same experience level as a lot of the guys on the EJet--makes no difference what jet you're on--if you don't belong in that seat, you don't belong in that seat.

Come this winter they're going to realize that with the full force of Mother Nature after being in Phoenix/Hawaii/Charlotte for their piddly 1,000 hours of 121 right-seat time--they don't know what they don't know...that's all I can say. I don't envy them at all--even the noobs senior to me.

Originally Posted by Q400winner

My apologies. I wasn't trying to over insult the pilots. I was more getting at their lack of airline experience with labor disputes is what will cause them to vote on a crappy TA and therefore not do any favors for our future brothers and sisters.

Originally Posted by flapshalfspeed

I had 3,000 hours 121 turbine time--mostly in JFK/LGA--before even touching the left seat of the EJet at Mesa. Yes, there are lots of newbie green guys who have no business in the left seat blasting around feeling important with their wing-mounted engines and VNAV. Yes--we need to have higher mins for upgrade (ooops left that out of this TA also).

I agree with you completely though--our upgrade mins are way too low. However, there are guys on the 900 in DFW who have the same experience level as a lot of the guys on the EJet--makes no difference what jet you're on--if you don't belong in that seat, you don't belong in that seat.

Come this winter they're going to realize that with the full force of Mother Nature after being in Phoenix/Hawaii/Charlotte for their piddly 1,000 hours of 121 right-seat time--they don't know what they don't know...that's all I can say. I don't envy them at all--even the noobs senior to me.

Originally Posted by deltajuliet

Can we bash this TA some more? It was nice to see Mesa pilots united behind something for once. I read some of the international section to the SO for a good laugh, and she cleverly noted the company can get out of paying by claiming the "reasonable presumption of the pilot's death." So even our Cartel kidnapping clause has some holes in it. Can a widow file a grievance?

Perhaps we could start throwing around the "S" word too. If only for leverage.

Originally Posted by Sennant

It will take years before you reach a point that the s word could even possibly come into play. And won't get approved by the government