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New Mesa Thread

Old 07-24-2015, 03:04 PM
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Ok since some can not keep it civil the old thread was closed down. Since there are many pilots who would like to have a mature conversation about what is happening at Mesa, and potential new pilots may like information I am going to start this thread. Please keep the conversation relevant and professional. Moderators feel free to toss the trouble makers.

With that being said the union has indicated that a new TA will be put to a pilot vote in the near future. It seems they are preparing the pilot group for a below industry average proposal. I would love to get a mature perspective on what a yes or no vote will mean for the group.
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Old 07-24-2015, 03:28 PM
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So.....let me get this straight. You are creating a new thread, so you can bring the drama to this new thread?
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Old 07-24-2015, 03:32 PM
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There are no pilots left to replace the Mesa pilots. Vote in subpar wages if you want. All this flying could be done at mainline for mainline rates and they would still make billions.

My guess is it improves pay for new hires, just enough to keep enticing them to come to Mesa without throwing much to the current pilots on the list.

Even if they try to shut down Mesa with a no vote, it would take years to try and replace them, and by then that plan would not work out to well unless the Mesa pilots replace themselves.
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Old 07-24-2015, 03:47 PM
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In B4 the lock.
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Old 07-24-2015, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Riverside View Post
So.....let me get this straight. You are creating a new thread, so you can bring the drama to this new thread?
Well Einstein, the other one was locked, so common sense means another will probably be started.
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Old 07-24-2015, 04:36 PM
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Yes, the union reps are tempering peoples' expectations regarding the TA, but there's no reason to believe they aren't also telling the truth about Mesa not having much to offer. More money in my pocket now has far more value than some theoretical larger sum years down the road. Even if I'm stuck at Mesa long term, I'd rather take what's offered. I'm voting yea.
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Old 07-24-2015, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by BE24pilot View Post
Ok since some can not keep it civil the old thread was closed down. Since there are many pilots who would like to have a mature conversation about what is happening at Mesa, and potential new pilots may like information I am going to start this thread. Please keep the conversation relevant and professional. Moderators feel free to toss the trouble makers.

With that being said the union has indicated that a new TA will be put to a pilot vote in the near future. It seems they are preparing the pilot group for a below industry average proposal. I would love to get a mature perspective on what a yes or no vote will mean for the group.
A yes vote means Mesa will have a firm five-year cost outlook, and an enhanced ability to attract/retain new hires, with which they can secure and staff more flying.

A no vote means Mesa will have an uncertain cost outlook, create the impression of labor instability with our codeshare partners, and decrease Mesa's ability to attract/retain new hires. The company's ability to secure/staff additional flying will be in question--by both JO and our codehsare partners--and it is very likely the status quo and existing fleet size will remain constant indefinitely.

This is truly a "take it or leave it" agreement, folks. If you're in the bottom half of the seniority list, and you don't want a raise or a Captain seat anytime in the near future--then by all means go for it and vote no! It'll be the most irrational career choice you've ever made (I've made the same misguided, emotional "no" vote before), but hey--who am I to attempt to sway your mind.

I just hope people will vote based on a rational assessment of the facts, the company's financial position, and the volumes of history documenting the demise of regionals on quixotic quests to "raise the bar." Set aside the views of a vocal minority of pilots who don't even work here, set aside the bitterness exuded by senior pilots who have enough seniority/salary to comfortably weather the fallout of a "no" vote for 4-5 years, and make the decision that's best for your career, your quality of life, and your family/dog/etc..

Last edited by flapshalfspeed; 07-24-2015 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 07-24-2015, 04:53 PM
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The new TA:

Obviously we'll need to read and analyze it, so at the moment we're dealing in hypotheticals and a general but vague idea of what to expect.

First off are pay rates. While it wouldn't be anything impressive, most of our less senior pilots would seriously consider industry average rates. That said, our expectations are being managed to an extent that we may not even get that... It's true we aren't mainline and their profits aren't necessarily correlated to ours, but with the lost decade finally coming to an end (hopefully) and in an era of record profits, it's pretty awful if we can't even secure regional industry average. Presumably this contract was finished to give confidence to mainline partners and recruit more FO's, but if pay has only increased negligibly that won't attract anyone. The exception would be if 1st year rates are dramatically improved but nobody else's are, in which case, I think we'd vote it down.

Scheduling: this seems to be the bread and butter of the new contract, but if there's not even a min day, what's the point? Transparency with the reserve buffers is nice but not enough on its own. I'm tired of sitting a whole day then doing one leg back.

We'll see what's in it soon. I'm not saying "Burn this place down," that hasn't worked out for numerous other pilot groups both historically and recently. However, I don't see the point in passing a TA with only negligible gains, particularly if it's a 5 year term. Maybe we'll get a little better, worst case scenario we stay where we are.
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Old 07-24-2015, 04:55 PM
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People need to vote based on what "is" and not what "might" be. I don't think many of you plan on staying at Mesa. We come here to work up the ladder to bigger, better things. What would give us more power in terms of assuring long term success, is to show unity to our partners thus leading to more aircraft and more upgrades. Look at Republic. They are parking planes because they can't staff them but they aren't offering any reason to work there. If we have a good quality of life, "reasonable pay" (which I think will be in the new contract) and solid relationship with the people who ultimately put food on our table (AA, United), then we should keep things going here.

All it takes is for us to have a big falling out with management and AA or United start to back away and award replacement flying to another regional. It would be a peice of cake for AA to announce another 40 or so crj or erjs to one of their partners and just watch the pilot's flock to them for the quick upgrade. That's exactly what is happening at Mesa right now. We are staffing simply on the "idea" that there may potentially be movement when it comes time to upgrade.

I have a number of close friends at Envoy. They specifically said the reason people were voting no was because the pilot's didn't think they could staff the plane's elsewhere. Guess what? They staffed the plane's elsewhere.

My understanding, and we will see for sure when they show us the TA, is that we didn't bend over and got a pretty decent deal considering all things.
Just sayin.....
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Old 07-24-2015, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by flapshalfspeed View Post
A yes vote means Mesa will have a firm five-year cost outlook, and an enhanced ability to attract/retain new hires, with which they can secure and staff more flying.
Exactly. However, future flying will not be at current rates (and if it is, whoever agrees to that deal should be fired, even if it's JO), and I'm not willing to enable the company to take on additional flying if the pilots do not share in future gains monetarily.
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