Military to civ conversion - rotor specific
#11
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
I'm going to disagree here.
I am a Mil fixed wing and civ rotor wing pilot.
Although they are both flying aircraft, they are different enough that I agree with the airlines. Also NAV/WSO/EWO time is NOT pilot time. It is helpful but not equivalent. I say this as a former Nav also.
BTW, the majority of the MIL rotor pilots I know who later went to FW were the weakest pilots in the unit. They had good hands but 120 knot minds, always behind the aircraft and poor energy management.
I am a Mil fixed wing and civ rotor wing pilot.
Although they are both flying aircraft, they are different enough that I agree with the airlines. Also NAV/WSO/EWO time is NOT pilot time. It is helpful but not equivalent. I say this as a former Nav also.
BTW, the majority of the MIL rotor pilots I know who later went to FW were the weakest pilots in the unit. They had good hands but 120 knot minds, always behind the aircraft and poor energy management.
#12
trip trading freak
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: MD-11
Posts: 673
I agree it sucks. But, for the record, as a fix wing guy, I was allowed .2 per flight. In both heavies and fighters you would be in the jet, engine running, taxiing out, arming up, or awaiting a TOT push time, tankers waiting for the fighters to get airborne etc, way more than that, sometimes hours. But .2 is all you get. If we did a mx run and never left the ground, we didn't get any credit for that either. They are trying to make apples to apples for the conversion(military to civilian) for mil because of the way military does the time. But unfortunately they are only doing apples to apples for fixed because most majors are wanting fixed wing time. I personally don't know anyone at my company that got hired with just helo time. Not saying someone isn't here but, their game, their rules.
Don't pay attention to the comments about the quality of the person in the seat. Totally irrelevant to this topic.
Don't pay attention to the comments about the quality of the person in the seat. Totally irrelevant to this topic.
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: military rotary wing, dual seat
Posts: 135
To the OP, I logged exactly what I logged per the 95-1, when I lift off in my helicopter until either 1) crew change (if I get out) or 2) engine shutdown.
So yeah, we get cheated out of a .2-.3 per flight because we don't play the blocks out-blocks in game.
That being said, I've spoken with two airlines that said, as necessary, they have their own "conversion" to recoup that time.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
So yeah, we get cheated out of a .2-.3 per flight because we don't play the blocks out-blocks in game.
That being said, I've spoken with two airlines that said, as necessary, they have their own "conversion" to recoup that time.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
#15
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
To the OP, I logged exactly what I logged per the 95-1, when I lift off in my helicopter until either 1) crew change (if I get out) or 2) engine shutdown.
So yeah, we get cheated out of a .2-.3 per flight because we don't play the blocks out-blocks in game.
That being said, I've spoken with two airlines that said, as necessary, they have their own "conversion" to recoup that time.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
So yeah, we get cheated out of a .2-.3 per flight because we don't play the blocks out-blocks in game.
That being said, I've spoken with two airlines that said, as necessary, they have their own "conversion" to recoup that time.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
1-6 Min = .1
7-12 min = .2
13-18 min = .3
19-24 min = .4
25-30 min = .5
31-36 min = .6
37 -42min = .7
43-48 min = .8
49-54 min = .9
55-60 min = 1.0
The "unfairness" is that civilians usually use a hobbs meter, which is what rental rates go off of, which are usually ticking anytime the engine is on. That doesn't jive with the FAA's definition of logging time, but it is an accepted practice, as is using block time in the airlines, which is (depending on how the ACARS/acft is set up) door close/brake drop until door open. Airline block time is different than loggable flight time per the FAA's definition, but no one cares, and the FAA rest rules, which are predicated on "flight time" use block time for computations. Sometimes I push and have to wait 5-10 minutes before taxi, but by definition I shouldn't start logging time until the aircraft moves under its own power. That never happens.
The bottom line is use what you have logged in the system in which you have it logged. No one cares, and, at least on the army rw side, it's all a wash anyway for the aforementioned reasons. But if there is a discrepancy between your 759 and your logbooks with your own conversion, that will draw attention. On some apps, there is instruction to add a conversion for mil time. But, based on the definitions of logging flight time by the FAA/95-1, I've never done it or needed to do it to change my competitiveness. And it wouldn't have changed anything anyway. If I was a mil FW dude, I maybe would have added a conversion depending on the app and my times.
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 461
The bottom line is use what you have logged in the system in which you have it logged. No one cares, and, at least on the army rw side, it's all a wash anyway for the aforementioned reasons. But if there is a discrepancy between your 759 and your logbooks with your own conversion, that will draw attention. On some apps, there is instruction to add a conversion for mil time. But, based on the definitions of logging flight time by the FAA/95-1, I've never done it or needed to do it to change my competitiveness. And it wouldn't have changed anything anyway. If I was a mil FW dude, I maybe would have added a conversion depending on the app and my times.
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Position: E175 FO
Posts: 186
What the 60av8tor said... Don't open doors if you don't have to. I have also been told that what you get off your 759 keep it in a separate logbook, specifically military times, and then have a different one for FAA/ Interview usage.
Has anyone tried the recent Envoy fixed wing conversion program yet? Those guys that have, willing to shed some light on what they were saying on how to get you to the requisite times? (Genuinely curious here, not going to jump ship from my current place).
Has anyone tried the recent Envoy fixed wing conversion program yet? Those guys that have, willing to shed some light on what they were saying on how to get you to the requisite times? (Genuinely curious here, not going to jump ship from my current place).
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 595
What the 60av8tor said... Don't open doors if you don't have to. I have also been told that what you get off your 759 keep it in a separate logbook, specifically military times, and then have a different one for FAA/ Interview usage.
Has anyone tried the recent Envoy fixed wing conversion program yet? Those guys that have, willing to shed some light on what they were saying on how to get you to the requisite times? (Genuinely curious here, not going to jump ship from my current place).
Has anyone tried the recent Envoy fixed wing conversion program yet? Those guys that have, willing to shed some light on what they were saying on how to get you to the requisite times? (Genuinely curious here, not going to jump ship from my current place).
He asked if I had my 759. When I said yes, he passed my resume to another gentleman in the room (neither looked at it) and told me my career highlights more or less, just from reading the 759.
Moral of the story, if they see Army on your resume, be ready to fork over the 759. At this point, there are probably a growing number of hiring folks (non-veterans) who are adept at reading a 759.
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: military rotary wing, dual seat
Posts: 135
I went to an interview (non-airline flying position) conducted by a retired Army Aviator.
He asked if I had my 759. When I said yes, he passed my resume to another gentleman in the room (neither looked at it) and told me my career highlights more or less, just from reading the 759.
Moral of the story, if they see Army on your resume, be ready to fork over the 759. At this point, there are probably a growing number of hiring folks (non-veterans) who are adept at reading a 759.
He asked if I had my 759. When I said yes, he passed my resume to another gentleman in the room (neither looked at it) and told me my career highlights more or less, just from reading the 759.
Moral of the story, if they see Army on your resume, be ready to fork over the 759. At this point, there are probably a growing number of hiring folks (non-veterans) who are adept at reading a 759.
I'll take my chances with a gorgeous purebred digital logbook and copy of my 7122 matching training and flight events.
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 595
Ugh.....that will NOT be an option for me. I have years of jacked up 759s, going all the way back to flight school. Time and time again I requested our flight operations to make the appropriate changes to them, and time and time again I got blown off. As such, the only thing that matches between my logbook and 759 is my total hours.
I'll take my chances with a gorgeous purebred digital logbook and copy of my 7122 matching training and flight events.
I'll take my chances with a gorgeous purebred digital logbook and copy of my 7122 matching training and flight events.
I went with Logbook Pro. Lengthy conversion from paper to digital, but extremely valuable when filling out applications or 8710's for CFI renewals.
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