"Chief Pilot" Designation
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,888
Part 91... perhaps. But it is not the same as a CP under 119. As a 135 CP/DO my certificate was on the line and I had a POI. Part 91? Nope. None of that. No inspections by the FAA.
But again. What military regulation lists the job of “chief pilot” along with the duties? Does a military CP have operational control? UCMJ authority? Senior to a commander? Junior to a Commander?
Again, putting something on an OER does not make it an official position. Sounds like Air Force pilots pushing the edge of integrity so buddies can get hired at legacy carriers.
So this is really simple. Someone post a link to the official duties and responsibilities of an Air Force Reserve or Air National Guard Chief Pilot.
Last edited by Blackhawk; 05-07-2019 at 05:02 PM.
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: MD-11 F/O
Posts: 111
I don't really have a dog in this fight, put down on your app whatever you feel comfortable with.
To answer a few questions based on my experience I'll add this. A CP in a USAFR squadron would not be applying to an airline because they already have an airline job. They are usually one of the most senior, experienced (airline and mil) pilots in the squadron, not somebody in need of resume' embellishment. They do not have UCMJ or G-series order authority (which is a good thing, but that's a different discussion). On the CP's OER/OPR there is a Duty Title "Chief Pilot". This passes muster at the Wing level and above. You are correct, the position isn't described in any official reg, but has existed for so long and is so far spread across the nation that it is considered legit. "Capt America" would not be legit. My theory only, but the position was probably created in the Reserves due to the part time nature of the Sq/CC. Having another designated senior Reservist (not ART) around to make decisions when the Sq/CC was out kept things moving. The duties given to the CP also don't exist in the AD. i.e. Hiring, liaising with civilian employers, mil leave problems, etc.
Another take away-- if you are a Chief Pilot in a USAF Reserve Sq, you are already more than qualified to get hired by an airline, so leave it off your app--you don't need it!
To answer a few questions based on my experience I'll add this. A CP in a USAFR squadron would not be applying to an airline because they already have an airline job. They are usually one of the most senior, experienced (airline and mil) pilots in the squadron, not somebody in need of resume' embellishment. They do not have UCMJ or G-series order authority (which is a good thing, but that's a different discussion). On the CP's OER/OPR there is a Duty Title "Chief Pilot". This passes muster at the Wing level and above. You are correct, the position isn't described in any official reg, but has existed for so long and is so far spread across the nation that it is considered legit. "Capt America" would not be legit. My theory only, but the position was probably created in the Reserves due to the part time nature of the Sq/CC. Having another designated senior Reservist (not ART) around to make decisions when the Sq/CC was out kept things moving. The duties given to the CP also don't exist in the AD. i.e. Hiring, liaising with civilian employers, mil leave problems, etc.
Another take away-- if you are a Chief Pilot in a USAF Reserve Sq, you are already more than qualified to get hired by an airline, so leave it off your app--you don't need it!
#23
First, there is no such thing as a CP in a 61 flight school. A flight school might have a chief flight instructor, but not a chief pilot. Even then under part 61 there is no requirement for a chief flight instructor. That is only under part 141.
Part 91... perhaps. But it is not the same as a CP under 119. As a 135 CP/DO my certificate was on the line and I had a POI. Part 91? Nope. None of that. No inspections by the FAA.
But again. What military regulation lists the job of “chief pilot” along with the duties? Does a military CP have operational control? UCMJ authority? Senior to a commander? Junior to a Commander?
Again, putting something on an OER does not make it an official position. Sounds like Air Force pilots pushing the edge of integrity so buddies can get hired at legacy carriers.
So this is really simple. Someone post a link to the official duties and responsibilities of an Air Force Reserve or Air National Guard Chief Pilot.
Part 91... perhaps. But it is not the same as a CP under 119. As a 135 CP/DO my certificate was on the line and I had a POI. Part 91? Nope. None of that. No inspections by the FAA.
But again. What military regulation lists the job of “chief pilot” along with the duties? Does a military CP have operational control? UCMJ authority? Senior to a commander? Junior to a Commander?
Again, putting something on an OER does not make it an official position. Sounds like Air Force pilots pushing the edge of integrity so buddies can get hired at legacy carriers.
So this is really simple. Someone post a link to the official duties and responsibilities of an Air Force Reserve or Air National Guard Chief Pilot.
None of the app questions that I recall seeing defined CP as being 119/141. Unless otherwise specified ANY job with a title CP (regardless of regs) would be legit as long as the employer granted that title. I think the point of the question is to identify who broke out of the pack into leadership, and that might be useful even in the case of a 20-something flight school CP.
If the question specifies CP under certain FARs, that would be black and white of course.
I was a 141 CP, but also oversaw 61 and some 91 ops. 141 CP is in the regs, but even without that I would have still been a CP and had no reservations about checking the box. If asked, my previous employer would have confirmed that I was the CP.
A CO/DO could reasonably check the box IMO, but I don't think it's safe to do that in all cases, so it's a question of risk vs. reward. I don't think a CO/DO even NEEDS to check the box so why risk it. Very likely that a 119 CP would be on the interview panel, and he might take a more rigid view of what CP means in that context. As in all things with airline apps and interviews, be conservative. They are really not looking for folks who push boundaries in self-promotion.
I think ANY job titled CP in writing would be safe to claim, regulatory or not. I think trying to translate other jobs into the CP title might be too risky. But again shades of grey, do what you're comfortable with.
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,888
There is typically no right or wrong answer to this question, just shades of grey.
None of the app questions that I recall seeing defined CP as being 119/141. Unless otherwise specified ANY job with a title CP (regardless of regs) would be legit as long as the employer granted that title. I think the point of the question is to identify who broke out of the pack into leadership, and that might be useful even in the case of a 20-something flight school CP.
If the question specifies CP under certain FARs, that would be black and white of course.
I was a 141 CP, but also oversaw 61 and some 91 ops. 141 CP is in the regs, but even without that I would have still been a CP and had no reservations about checking the box. If asked, my previous employer would have confirmed that I was the CP.
A CO/DO could reasonably check the box IMO, but I don't think it's safe to do that in all cases, so it's a question of risk vs. reward. I don't think a CO/DO even NEEDS to check the box so why risk it. Very likely that a 119 CP would be on the interview panel, and he might take a more rigid view of what CP means in that context. As in all things with airline apps and interviews, be conservative. They are really not looking for folks who push boundaries in self-promotion.
I think ANY job titled CP in writing would be safe to claim, regulatory or not. I think trying to translate other jobs into the CP title might be too risky. But again shades of grey, do what you're comfortable with.
None of the app questions that I recall seeing defined CP as being 119/141. Unless otherwise specified ANY job with a title CP (regardless of regs) would be legit as long as the employer granted that title. I think the point of the question is to identify who broke out of the pack into leadership, and that might be useful even in the case of a 20-something flight school CP.
If the question specifies CP under certain FARs, that would be black and white of course.
I was a 141 CP, but also oversaw 61 and some 91 ops. 141 CP is in the regs, but even without that I would have still been a CP and had no reservations about checking the box. If asked, my previous employer would have confirmed that I was the CP.
A CO/DO could reasonably check the box IMO, but I don't think it's safe to do that in all cases, so it's a question of risk vs. reward. I don't think a CO/DO even NEEDS to check the box so why risk it. Very likely that a 119 CP would be on the interview panel, and he might take a more rigid view of what CP means in that context. As in all things with airline apps and interviews, be conservative. They are really not looking for folks who push boundaries in self-promotion.
I think ANY job titled CP in writing would be safe to claim, regulatory or not. I think trying to translate other jobs into the CP title might be too risky. But again shades of grey, do what you're comfortable with.
As for Part 91, there is again no regulation on what constitutes a Part 91 CP, their responsibilities or duties nor is it a position that can be inspected by the FAA. So the issue becomes what actually constitutes the duties and responsibilities of someone checking that block. When I check it there is no doubt what my duties consisted of as it was covered under 119 and 135. There is no doubt that I was inspected and if my records weren’t straight my certificate was on the line and my employer faced monetary penalties.
There is employment history on applications and that is where those things belong unless a potential employer states in writing that it’s okay to check that block for other positions. There have been cases of interviews being ended when applicants checked that box and the interviewers did not feel it was warranted.
#25
I don’t see anything about a chief pilot under FAR 141.33, Personnel. I see a chief flight instructor which is different from a chief pilot. What part of 141 are you referring to?
As for Part 91, there is again no regulation on what constitutes a Part 91 CP, their responsibilities or duties nor is it a position that can be inspected by the FAA. So the issue becomes what actually constitutes the duties and responsibilities of someone checking that block. When I check it there is no doubt what my duties consisted of as it was covered under 119 and 135. There is no doubt that I was inspected and if my records weren’t straight my certificate was on the line and my employer faced monetary penalties.
There is employment history on applications and that is where those things belong unless a potential employer states in writing that it’s okay to check that block for other positions. There have been cases of interviews being ended when applicants checked that box and the interviewers did not feel it was warranted.
As for Part 91, there is again no regulation on what constitutes a Part 91 CP, their responsibilities or duties nor is it a position that can be inspected by the FAA. So the issue becomes what actually constitutes the duties and responsibilities of someone checking that block. When I check it there is no doubt what my duties consisted of as it was covered under 119 and 135. There is no doubt that I was inspected and if my records weren’t straight my certificate was on the line and my employer faced monetary penalties.
There is employment history on applications and that is where those things belong unless a potential employer states in writing that it’s okay to check that block for other positions. There have been cases of interviews being ended when applicants checked that box and the interviewers did not feel it was warranted.
You can safely take application questions literally. If you were ever designated a CP by an employer, and can prove it in writing, check the box. If not, don't.
There's obviously a vast difference between being CP of some owner's one-man-band 1900 operation and being CP of a 121 airline. But the question doesn't ask that. If they specifically only wanted 119 CP experience, the question would state that. I think what they're interested in is leadership breakout, appropriate to your career progression at that point. They're hiring for line pilots, not 121 CP's. They already have those, and plenty of experienced CA's waiting in the wings if they need more.
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