Navy carrier Captain fired.
06-20-2020, 10:54 AM
#131
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 534
Originally Posted by rickair7777
I don't know. But they all know not to send TS via the interwebs.
I think you guys are missing it. What happened here is very simple. Crozier parked his ship because of the virus. President Trump knows this looks bad (because it doesn’t support the idea the virus is under control, everything is fine, etc.) So Crozier gets axed. End of story. This isn’t normal.
06-20-2020, 01:22 PM
#132
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
Originally Posted by Gordie H
This wasn’t the reason he was fired (this time) according to the CNO. The new reason is because he wasn’t proactive enough keeping his crew safe from the virus (e.g. mandating social distancing, prohibiting hand shaking, etc.) He reportedly was seen shaking hands with a crewmember as he disembarked (omg). This is all utter crap of course.
I think you guys are missing it. What happened here is very simple. Crozier parked his ship because of the virus. President Trump knows this looks bad (because it doesn’t support the idea the virus is under control, everything is fine, etc.) So Crozier gets axed. End of story. This isn’t normal.
I think you guys are missing it. What happened here is very simple. Crozier parked his ship because of the virus. President Trump knows this looks bad (because it doesn’t support the idea the virus is under control, everything is fine, etc.) So Crozier gets axed. End of story. This isn’t normal.
06-20-2020, 02:51 PM
#133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 534
Originally Posted by Excargodog
A senior officer on a command track embarrassed the service. Doesn’t matter why. He got bumped off the command track. That’s normal in every US military service.
At the very least the spineless CNO should have been more attune to the political landscape and had his first investigation board make up reasons to sack Crozier. Thus saving the CAPT from getting nationally disparaged twice. But then again I think people can see what this is and understand Crozier is, in fact, a great American.
06-20-2020, 03:14 PM
#134
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 324
Originally Posted by Gordie H
If what you’re saying is true, then the FIRST report would have found cause. But it didn’t. It recommended reinstatement…the chief of naval operations was getting ready to have a press conference to announce it when Esper stepped in. Not normal buddy.
At the very least the spineless CNO should have been more attune to the political landscape and had his first investigation board make up reasons to sack Crozier. Thus saving the CAPT from getting nationally disparaged twice. But then again I think people can see what this is and understand Crozier is, in fact, a great American.
At the very least the spineless CNO should have been more attune to the political landscape and had his first investigation board make up reasons to sack Crozier. Thus saving the CAPT from getting nationally disparaged twice. But then again I think people can see what this is and understand Crozier is, in fact, a great American.
06-20-2020, 03:36 PM
#135
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
Originally Posted by Gordie H
If what you’re saying is true, then the FIRST report would have found cause. But it didn’t. It recommended reinstatement…the chief of naval operations was getting ready to have a press conference to announce it when Esper stepped in. Not normal buddy.
At the very least the spineless CNO should have been more attune to the political landscape and had his first investigation board make up reasons to sack Crozier. Thus saving the CAPT from getting nationally disparaged twice. But then again I think people can see what this is and understand Crozier is, in fact, a great American.
At the very least the spineless CNO should have been more attune to the political landscape and had his first investigation board make up reasons to sack Crozier. Thus saving the CAPT from getting nationally disparaged twice. But then again I think people can see what this is and understand Crozier is, in fact, a great American.
"I will not reassign Capt. Brett Crozier as the commanding officer of the USS Theodore Roosevelt, nor will he be eligible for future command," Adm. Michael Gilday, chief of naval operations, declared Friday at a Pentagon news conference, adding that Crozier would be reassigned.
Also facing sanctions is Rear Adm. Stuart Baker, the commander of the aircraft carrier's strike group, whose Senate-confirmed promotion to a second star has been put on hold.
After having concluded from a preliminary inquiry that Crozier should be returned to his command post, Gilday said his review of a much broader subsequent investigation led him to a judgment that both Crozier and Baker "fell well short of what we expect of those in command."
"Had I known then what I know today, I would have not made that recommendation to reinstate Capt. Crozier," the Navy's highest-ranking officer added. "Moreover, if Capt. Crozier were still in command today, I would be relieving him."
Gilday did not cite as grounds for his decision the anguished email Crozier sent decrying a slow response by the Navy to the outbreak aboard the Roosevelt, a missive that leaked and was published within a day by the San Francisco Chronicle.
"Capt. Crozier hit send once on that email," Gilday said. "Capt. Crozier did not leak that email, or intend for it to be leaked. So at that time, I felt that the facts did not justify relief, based on the narrow scope."
The broader review, which was requested by then-acting Navy Secretary James McPherson, found what Gilday described as actions by Crozier and Baker that put the crew's comfort above their safety.
"They did not do enough soon enough to fulfill their primary obligation, and they did not effectively carry out our guidelines to prevent spread of the virus," Gilday told reporters. "They were slow egressing sailors off the ship, and they failed to move sailors to available, safer environments quickly."
The Navy chief also said Crozier exercised "questionable judgment" by releasing sailors from quarantine on his ship, an action Gilday said put the crew at higher risk "and may have increased the spread of the virus aboard the Theodore Roosevelt."
Also facing sanctions is Rear Adm. Stuart Baker, the commander of the aircraft carrier's strike group, whose Senate-confirmed promotion to a second star has been put on hold.
After having concluded from a preliminary inquiry that Crozier should be returned to his command post, Gilday said his review of a much broader subsequent investigation led him to a judgment that both Crozier and Baker "fell well short of what we expect of those in command."
"Had I known then what I know today, I would have not made that recommendation to reinstate Capt. Crozier," the Navy's highest-ranking officer added. "Moreover, if Capt. Crozier were still in command today, I would be relieving him."
Gilday did not cite as grounds for his decision the anguished email Crozier sent decrying a slow response by the Navy to the outbreak aboard the Roosevelt, a missive that leaked and was published within a day by the San Francisco Chronicle.
"Capt. Crozier hit send once on that email," Gilday said. "Capt. Crozier did not leak that email, or intend for it to be leaked. So at that time, I felt that the facts did not justify relief, based on the narrow scope."
The broader review, which was requested by then-acting Navy Secretary James McPherson, found what Gilday described as actions by Crozier and Baker that put the crew's comfort above their safety.
"They did not do enough soon enough to fulfill their primary obligation, and they did not effectively carry out our guidelines to prevent spread of the virus," Gilday told reporters. "They were slow egressing sailors off the ship, and they failed to move sailors to available, safer environments quickly."
The Navy chief also said Crozier exercised "questionable judgment" by releasing sailors from quarantine on his ship, an action Gilday said put the crew at higher risk "and may have increased the spread of the virus aboard the Theodore Roosevelt."
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/19/881039090/in-a-reversal-by-navy-sacked-captain-of-uss-roosevelt-will-not-be-reinstated.
But the bottom line is still:
Don’t embarrass the Navy.
It isn’t an easy life:
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/06/12/navy-vice-admiral-former-head-5th-fleet-died-suicide-bahrain.html
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-11-25-mn-2849-story.html.
https://www.stripes.com/news/memoria...ficer-1.212749
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...8BN00T20121224
https://www.pilotonline.com/military...af0b45ef2.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...cide/92880986/
Last edited by Excargodog; 06-20-2020 at 03:51 PM.
06-20-2020, 07:31 PM
#136
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 534
Originally Posted by Excargodog
What I’m saying IS true. And the CNO made it clear enough on his second time at bat:
06-20-2020, 07:56 PM
#137
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
Originally Posted by Gordie H
Yeah I had read Gilday’s pathetic gibberish. As you say, this is what he’s saying the second time – AFTER he realizes he better get with the program or he’s going to get axed. Embarrassment had nothing to do with it…this second go was all about self-preservation.
and for that matter, because active duty military pay is capped at the executive level 2 payscale, almost all 3 and 4 stars make MORE in retirement than they did on active duty:
https://www.militarytimes.com/pay-be...-and-benefits/
I doubt Gilday would be an exception.
06-21-2020, 07:50 AM
#138
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,289
If they were going to seriously consider re-instatement they should have definitely done a thorough investigation before they telegraphed any intent. And got the entire CoC's buy-in too.
I'm still wondering WTF were they (CO and CSG) were thinking though, some apparent dysfunction there. I'll get the full story from my friends eventually but they are definitely not going to be talking out of school any time soon and I'm not going to ask. I'll update everyone in about ten years
I'm still wondering WTF were they (CO and CSG) were thinking though, some apparent dysfunction there. I'll get the full story from my friends eventually but they are definitely not going to be talking out of school any time soon and I'm not going to ask. I'll update everyone in about ten years
06-21-2020, 09:52 AM
#139
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 534
Lol - of course they did a thorough investigation. Had nothing to do with it. The second Crozier docked he was done because POTUS thought it looked bad. Crozier could have come up with a vaccine and he'd still have gotten canned.
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