AV-8B Harrier down in NC
01-17-2009 | 11:01 AM
#21
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Joined: Mar 2008
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From: FAA 'Flight Check'
However until the accident report is released, it's all speculation...regardless of how logical the conclusion may seem or how much it seems to be "common knowledge." It is inappropriate for dudes who identify themselves as military pilots to speculate in public about the cause of a mishap. While this is a pilot forum, this is not the same as being in the ready room/squadron bar where you know exactly who you are/are not speculating to. And it's a complete foul to talk publicly about things like his currency...the presumption when that is brought up, especially by a another dude who identifies himself as a harrier pilot, is that his currency was a factor in the mishap. Again, that would be speculation.
Miramar mishap for instance. We don't know what happened yet but there is speculation and we are already formulating NATOPS scenarios to train to a possibility.
If I say that he (MP) was an RP during CQ and was single engine and coming back from USS Boat - well that is ok. In my opinion - me talking on this forum about what decisions were made and why, or what specific failure(s) occurred would not be appropriate.
I'm with BDGERJMN on this one.
That is ok......but let's keep any disagreement between members on this forum on a professional level and discuss any issue in a mature manner so we don't sound like the other forums.
USMCFLYR
01-17-2009 | 11:44 AM
#22
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Joined: Apr 2007
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dude you're missing the point.
Speculating, discussing, guessing, etc are FINE when it's with other military pilots in your BAR, or READY ROOM, or BRIEFING ROOM or SQUADRON or somewhere else not public.
Throwing out juicy tidbits like the currency of the mishap pilot, especially when they are qualified with the high confidence phrase "I heard...", on a PUBLIC INTERNET FORUM that, while interesting, prove nothing and only do a disservice to a deceased bro. If there was some information that has been discovered that was time critical to the rest of our safety, you'd have already heard it via official channels.
This kid is dead and it's a tragedy. It is unfair to him and his family to PUBLICLY post RUMORS, no matter how well founded, that lead any random dude who looks at this website to the conclusion that the crash was pilot error. That's exactly what has been done here.
Many accident investigations have looked cut and dry up front, but after digging they have found a much different cause then they thought they would. Who knows if this one will turn out that way or not.
I'm out.
Speculating, discussing, guessing, etc are FINE when it's with other military pilots in your BAR, or READY ROOM, or BRIEFING ROOM or SQUADRON or somewhere else not public.
Throwing out juicy tidbits like the currency of the mishap pilot, especially when they are qualified with the high confidence phrase "I heard...", on a PUBLIC INTERNET FORUM that, while interesting, prove nothing and only do a disservice to a deceased bro. If there was some information that has been discovered that was time critical to the rest of our safety, you'd have already heard it via official channels.
This kid is dead and it's a tragedy. It is unfair to him and his family to PUBLICLY post RUMORS, no matter how well founded, that lead any random dude who looks at this website to the conclusion that the crash was pilot error. That's exactly what has been done here.
Many accident investigations have looked cut and dry up front, but after digging they have found a much different cause then they thought they would. Who knows if this one will turn out that way or not.
I'm out.
01-17-2009 | 10:54 PM
#23
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Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 13,843
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From: FAA 'Flight Check'
dude you're missing the point.
Speculating, discussing, guessing, etc are FINE when it's with other military pilots in your BAR, or READY ROOM, or BRIEFING ROOM or SQUADRON or somewhere else not public.
Throwing out juicy tidbits like the currency of the mishap pilot, especially when they are qualified with the high confidence phrase "I heard...", on a PUBLIC INTERNET FORUM that, while interesting, prove nothing and only do a disservice to a deceased bro. If there was some information that has been discovered that was time critical to the rest of our safety, you'd have already heard it via official channels.
This kid is dead and it's a tragedy. It is unfair to him and his family to PUBLICLY post RUMORS, no matter how well founded, that lead any random dude who looks at this website to the conclusion that the crash was pilot error. That's exactly what has been done here.
Many accident investigations have looked cut and dry up front, but after digging they have found a much different cause then they thought they would. Who knows if this one will turn out that way or not.
I'm out.
Speculating, discussing, guessing, etc are FINE when it's with other military pilots in your BAR, or READY ROOM, or BRIEFING ROOM or SQUADRON or somewhere else not public.
Throwing out juicy tidbits like the currency of the mishap pilot, especially when they are qualified with the high confidence phrase "I heard...", on a PUBLIC INTERNET FORUM that, while interesting, prove nothing and only do a disservice to a deceased bro. If there was some information that has been discovered that was time critical to the rest of our safety, you'd have already heard it via official channels.
This kid is dead and it's a tragedy. It is unfair to him and his family to PUBLICLY post RUMORS, no matter how well founded, that lead any random dude who looks at this website to the conclusion that the crash was pilot error. That's exactly what has been done here.
Many accident investigations have looked cut and dry up front, but after digging they have found a much different cause then they thought they would. Who knows if this one will turn out that way or not.
I'm out.
USMCFLYR
01-19-2009 | 05:07 PM
#25
On Reserve
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
dude you're missing the point.
Speculating, discussing, guessing, etc are FINE when it's with other military pilots in your BAR, or READY ROOM, or BRIEFING ROOM or SQUADRON or somewhere else not public.
Throwing out juicy tidbits like the currency of the mishap pilot, especially when they are qualified with the high confidence phrase "I heard...", on a PUBLIC INTERNET FORUM that, while interesting, prove nothing and only do a disservice to a deceased bro. If there was some information that has been discovered that was time critical to the rest of our safety, you'd have already heard it via official channels.
This kid is dead and it's a tragedy. It is unfair to him and his family to PUBLICLY post RUMORS, no matter how well founded, that lead any random dude who looks at this website to the conclusion that the crash was pilot error. That's exactly what has been done here.
Many accident investigations have looked cut and dry up front, but after digging they have found a much different cause then they thought they would. Who knows if this one will turn out that way or not.
I'm out.
Speculating, discussing, guessing, etc are FINE when it's with other military pilots in your BAR, or READY ROOM, or BRIEFING ROOM or SQUADRON or somewhere else not public.
Throwing out juicy tidbits like the currency of the mishap pilot, especially when they are qualified with the high confidence phrase "I heard...", on a PUBLIC INTERNET FORUM that, while interesting, prove nothing and only do a disservice to a deceased bro. If there was some information that has been discovered that was time critical to the rest of our safety, you'd have already heard it via official channels.
This kid is dead and it's a tragedy. It is unfair to him and his family to PUBLICLY post RUMORS, no matter how well founded, that lead any random dude who looks at this website to the conclusion that the crash was pilot error. That's exactly what has been done here.
Many accident investigations have looked cut and dry up front, but after digging they have found a much different cause then they thought they would. Who knows if this one will turn out that way or not.
I'm out.
01-19-2009 | 05:52 PM
#26
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 328
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Gents,
I have to chime in.
I agree with TboneF15 and BDGERJMN on this issue.
As 'Bros, we lost a brother. We should not do him, or his FAMILY the dis-service of posting the details of his demise on a PUBLIC forum.
We can speculate and debate in person -- face to face, hopefully over a beer. This forum is not a Ready Room, not the O-club, and not a face to face conversation.
Think of his family-- If I was his father/mother/brother/ect, I would be crushed to learn that "he flew into the ground" by reading it here. This is not the place. Let the SIR work and let the CACO process work.
On my first tour we lost 3 Aviators in 41 days (my best friend one of them). I can't begin to tell you how much the family craves any information about the tragic event (even if the information is incorrect or specualtion). It hurts them-- WE hurt them.
Again, I ask we let the SIR and CACO process work.
Very Respectfully,
ImTumbleweed
"Afterburner is a great substitute for poor headwork"
I have to chime in.
I agree with TboneF15 and BDGERJMN on this issue.
As 'Bros, we lost a brother. We should not do him, or his FAMILY the dis-service of posting the details of his demise on a PUBLIC forum.
We can speculate and debate in person -- face to face, hopefully over a beer. This forum is not a Ready Room, not the O-club, and not a face to face conversation.
Think of his family-- If I was his father/mother/brother/ect, I would be crushed to learn that "he flew into the ground" by reading it here. This is not the place. Let the SIR work and let the CACO process work.
On my first tour we lost 3 Aviators in 41 days (my best friend one of them). I can't begin to tell you how much the family craves any information about the tragic event (even if the information is incorrect or specualtion). It hurts them-- WE hurt them.
Again, I ask we let the SIR and CACO process work.
Very Respectfully,
ImTumbleweed
"Afterburner is a great substitute for poor headwork"
05-02-2009 | 10:40 PM
#29
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 189
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I'm late to the fight - but have to say I'm with BDGERJMN and T-Bone on this one. In less than ten years, I watched two squadron mates be buried and remember the immediate proceedings of the accidents - as if it were yesterday. I would never have considered discussing the accident on a public forum - no matter how public the information was. I definitely understand the need to debrief accidents, I think we all do. But, there is a time and place for that, especially if there is an immediate danger and need to discuss it amongst the affected drivers. That place is not here. Huge foul - this one seems pretty black and white.
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