ANG Enlisted to Pilot advice
02-28-2011, 04:19 PM
#21
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Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 55
Great Advice. I'm located in Southwest Washington area and there aren't too many fight slots over here in the PNW. I will go where I have to but Portland would be the best. I still have a year to apply though so I'll try to get some face time. Any idea how to "show yourself" to those units you apply to that are far away?
Another question I had to bring to attention is that the new guys rarely ever get a full-time position and are usually part-time. What did you do in the time you were flying part-time? Racking up civilian hours? Or just have a normal everyday job? My goal eventually is to fly commercially and be apart of the ANG (...until they kick me out
) but I wont be able to do that until I have the required hours to fly for a regional.
Thanks.
Another question I had to bring to attention is that the new guys rarely ever get a full-time position and are usually part-time. What did you do in the time you were flying part-time? Racking up civilian hours? Or just have a normal everyday job? My goal eventually is to fly commercially and be apart of the ANG (...until they kick me out
) but I wont be able to do that until I have the required hours to fly for a regional. Thanks.
02-28-2011, 06:15 PM
#22
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Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: MD-11 FO
Posts: 59
No advice on face time. Like I said, when you are talking to a unit you want to work with, find out what they have going on such as picnics, ceremonies, events. Show up for a few of those. That's what I meant.
Being full time or part time has nothing to do with how new you are. It has to do with the unit, the mission, how much money they are alotted, how many people they are allowed to have full time at once, and so forth.
Here at Charleston, when I first finished training, we were allowed 6 crews on full time at one time. We had a three month rotation. You could sign up for three months. When you finished your three months, if no one was wanting to start their three months, you could ride into the next three for as long as you could. Until you got kicked off the list by others who wanted to come on. It has to do with first come, first serve. Not how new you are.
Today, with all the money issues, we can only have 2 crews full time at once. And that is only going to last to May. With all the budget issues in D.C. right now, we might not even get our mandatory UTA weekends in pay here soon.
My point is simply this is a very important thing to ask your unit. How much full time can I get? How much flying can I expect? This should be a huge factor in what you choose. Here at Charleston, with the C-17, we are lucky in that the plane is still highly in demand and our mission is pretty diverse. So we get a lot of work. Now, a tanker or fighter unit will have very different demands and circumstances that will dictate how much full time work they can get, if any. You won't know until you ask that question to the unit you want to work for.
I don't get your last comment about flying for a regional. I've got more than enough hours for a job and I never flew for a regional. I flew the C-17 exclusively these past four years. I'm not saying that regionals are a bad thing, but if you can build experience flying heavies instead of RJ's, do it. Again, you won't know if that's possible until you talk to your unit you are applying to. All 2200 hours so far of my time in the C-17 are heavy, multi turbine time. Yes, I could have gone to a regional after 600 hours, but why? I make way much more money in the Reserves and I'm building much more favorable time. It is a very good, viable option for you. I'm not trying to tell you not to. Just consider ALL your options, and where you will be in 5 years with each one.
Being full time or part time has nothing to do with how new you are. It has to do with the unit, the mission, how much money they are alotted, how many people they are allowed to have full time at once, and so forth.
Here at Charleston, when I first finished training, we were allowed 6 crews on full time at one time. We had a three month rotation. You could sign up for three months. When you finished your three months, if no one was wanting to start their three months, you could ride into the next three for as long as you could. Until you got kicked off the list by others who wanted to come on. It has to do with first come, first serve. Not how new you are.
Today, with all the money issues, we can only have 2 crews full time at once. And that is only going to last to May. With all the budget issues in D.C. right now, we might not even get our mandatory UTA weekends in pay here soon.
My point is simply this is a very important thing to ask your unit. How much full time can I get? How much flying can I expect? This should be a huge factor in what you choose. Here at Charleston, with the C-17, we are lucky in that the plane is still highly in demand and our mission is pretty diverse. So we get a lot of work. Now, a tanker or fighter unit will have very different demands and circumstances that will dictate how much full time work they can get, if any. You won't know until you ask that question to the unit you want to work for.
I don't get your last comment about flying for a regional. I've got more than enough hours for a job and I never flew for a regional. I flew the C-17 exclusively these past four years. I'm not saying that regionals are a bad thing, but if you can build experience flying heavies instead of RJ's, do it. Again, you won't know if that's possible until you talk to your unit you are applying to. All 2200 hours so far of my time in the C-17 are heavy, multi turbine time. Yes, I could have gone to a regional after 600 hours, but why? I make way much more money in the Reserves and I'm building much more favorable time. It is a very good, viable option for you. I'm not trying to tell you not to. Just consider ALL your options, and where you will be in 5 years with each one.
02-28-2011, 09:10 PM
#23
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Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 55
Originally Posted by Sirecks
No advice on face time. Like I said, when you are talking to a unit you want to work with, find out what they have going on such as picnics, ceremonies, events. Show up for a few of those. That's what I meant.
Being full time or part time has nothing to do with how new you are. It has to do with the unit, the mission, how much money they are alotted, how many people they are allowed to have full time at once, and so forth.
Here at Charleston, when I first finished training, we were allowed 6 crews on full time at one time. We had a three month rotation. You could sign up for three months. When you finished your three months, if no one was wanting to start their three months, you could ride into the next three for as long as you could. Until you got kicked off the list by others who wanted to come on. It has to do with first come, first serve. Not how new you are.
Today, with all the money issues, we can only have 2 crews full time at once. And that is only going to last to May. With all the budget issues in D.C. right now, we might not even get our mandatory UTA weekends in pay here soon.
My point is simply this is a very important thing to ask your unit. How much full time can I get? How much flying can I expect? This should be a huge factor in what you choose. Here at Charleston, with the C-17, we are lucky in that the plane is still highly in demand and our mission is pretty diverse. So we get a lot of work. Now, a tanker or fighter unit will have very different demands and circumstances that will dictate how much full time work they can get, if any. You won't know until you ask that question to the unit you want to work for.
I don't get your last comment about flying for a regional. I've got more than enough hours for a job and I never flew for a regional. I flew the C-17 exclusively these past four years. I'm not saying that regionals are a bad thing, but if you can build experience flying heavies instead of RJ's, do it. Again, you won't know if that's possible until you talk to your unit you are applying to. All 2200 hours so far of my time in the C-17 are heavy, multi turbine time. Yes, I could have gone to a regional after 600 hours, but why? I make way much more money in the Reserves and I'm building much more favorable time. It is a very good, viable option for you. I'm not trying to tell you not to. Just consider ALL your options, and where you will be in 5 years with each one.
Being full time or part time has nothing to do with how new you are. It has to do with the unit, the mission, how much money they are alotted, how many people they are allowed to have full time at once, and so forth.
Here at Charleston, when I first finished training, we were allowed 6 crews on full time at one time. We had a three month rotation. You could sign up for three months. When you finished your three months, if no one was wanting to start their three months, you could ride into the next three for as long as you could. Until you got kicked off the list by others who wanted to come on. It has to do with first come, first serve. Not how new you are.
Today, with all the money issues, we can only have 2 crews full time at once. And that is only going to last to May. With all the budget issues in D.C. right now, we might not even get our mandatory UTA weekends in pay here soon.
My point is simply this is a very important thing to ask your unit. How much full time can I get? How much flying can I expect? This should be a huge factor in what you choose. Here at Charleston, with the C-17, we are lucky in that the plane is still highly in demand and our mission is pretty diverse. So we get a lot of work. Now, a tanker or fighter unit will have very different demands and circumstances that will dictate how much full time work they can get, if any. You won't know until you ask that question to the unit you want to work for.
I don't get your last comment about flying for a regional. I've got more than enough hours for a job and I never flew for a regional. I flew the C-17 exclusively these past four years. I'm not saying that regionals are a bad thing, but if you can build experience flying heavies instead of RJ's, do it. Again, you won't know if that's possible until you talk to your unit you are applying to. All 2200 hours so far of my time in the C-17 are heavy, multi turbine time. Yes, I could have gone to a regional after 600 hours, but why? I make way much more money in the Reserves and I'm building much more favorable time. It is a very good, viable option for you. I'm not trying to tell you not to. Just consider ALL your options, and where you will be in 5 years with each one.
Oh... well from the research I have done it seems like flying in the ANG doesn't make much money therefore you'd need a civilian job on the side. I enjoy flying a lot for why not try to get into a regional/major and rack up some hours and get all the nice benefits!
03-01-2011, 04:24 AM
#24
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Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: MD-11 FO
Posts: 59
Again, it all comes down to your unit. If you brought this to the guys in my unit, you might get a mixed reaction. There is work and flying to be done here. We have plenty of young guys who do nothing but fly for us because there is a lot to go around and you can keep yourself very busy. Other planes, other units will be different. That is my point. You have to ask around and find out how much work is there at the unit you are trying to get into to know if you'll need an outside job or not.
My point about the regionals is that if you are in a unit flying heavy metal, you can get a lot of hours and feed the family, why go to a regional? If you are in a unit where there is little work, and you need something else to fill the check book, then it might be a good option for you. I'm just trying to say don't run to them just because you think you need to. It's a lot of work for very low pay. If you can get hours strictly in your unit, then I would do that. That's all.
My point about the regionals is that if you are in a unit flying heavy metal, you can get a lot of hours and feed the family, why go to a regional? If you are in a unit where there is little work, and you need something else to fill the check book, then it might be a good option for you. I'm just trying to say don't run to them just because you think you need to. It's a lot of work for very low pay. If you can get hours strictly in your unit, then I would do that. That's all.
03-01-2011, 10:03 AM
#25
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 55
Originally Posted by Sirecks
Again, it all comes down to your unit. If you brought this to the guys in my unit, you might get a mixed reaction. There is work and flying to be done here. We have plenty of young guys who do nothing but fly for us because there is a lot to go around and you can keep yourself very busy. Other planes, other units will be different. That is my point. You have to ask around and find out how much work is there at the unit you are trying to get into to know if you'll need an outside job or not.
My point about the regionals is that if you are in a unit flying heavy metal, you can get a lot of hours and feed the family, why go to a regional? If you are in a unit where there is little work, and you need something else to fill the check book, then it might be a good option for you. I'm just trying to say don't run to them just because you think you need to. It's a lot of work for very low pay. If you can get hours strictly in your unit, then I would do that. That's all.
My point about the regionals is that if you are in a unit flying heavy metal, you can get a lot of hours and feed the family, why go to a regional? If you are in a unit where there is little work, and you need something else to fill the check book, then it might be a good option for you. I'm just trying to say don't run to them just because you think you need to. It's a lot of work for very low pay. If you can get hours strictly in your unit, then I would do that. That's all.
Ohhhh... I think I got ya now. All depends on the unit. The ANG pilot I knew who retired made it seem like he didn't fly enough/make enough to support his family so he needed to join a Regional. But if you make as much as you are making it sound like then I'll be all ANG, all the way. I'll just search through all the units and ask how many flight hours their pilots get on average and determine if that'll keep me busy enough.
03-01-2011, 10:42 AM
#26
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: C-17, all of em
Posts: 66
Hawk,
I think you need to realize and plan/budget for the fact that there is no way to predict flight hours or pay in the ANG/AFRC. It will vary depending on your airframe, command, current budget (or continuing resolution in lieu of a budget) and the global conflict level. You can call every unit out there and ask for hours flown, TDY availability, funding etc... and those units can give you a historical or present day snapshot but that will be no indication of the future.
In the mobility world, a lot of people have made their active duty salary as a reservist for the past...decade possibly. That's been nice but no guarantee it will be around. Combat platforms probably had their hayday at one point as well. Just when you think you're in a routine and have things figured out, that's when the current way of doing business is changed by someone reinventing the wheel.
The competition is fierce for off the street hires in the ANG/AFRC. From reading your posts it seems like you definitely have some ultimate plans/goals in mind for where you want to end up and what you want to fly. Like previous posters have stated, you need to concentrate on becoming an Air Force pilot first, in any airframe you can. From SW WA I would target Portland, McChord, Fairchild and Travis. Those are all within your reach.
Good luck
I think you need to realize and plan/budget for the fact that there is no way to predict flight hours or pay in the ANG/AFRC. It will vary depending on your airframe, command, current budget (or continuing resolution in lieu of a budget) and the global conflict level. You can call every unit out there and ask for hours flown, TDY availability, funding etc... and those units can give you a historical or present day snapshot but that will be no indication of the future.
In the mobility world, a lot of people have made their active duty salary as a reservist for the past...decade possibly. That's been nice but no guarantee it will be around. Combat platforms probably had their hayday at one point as well. Just when you think you're in a routine and have things figured out, that's when the current way of doing business is changed by someone reinventing the wheel.
The competition is fierce for off the street hires in the ANG/AFRC. From reading your posts it seems like you definitely have some ultimate plans/goals in mind for where you want to end up and what you want to fly. Like previous posters have stated, you need to concentrate on becoming an Air Force pilot first, in any airframe you can. From SW WA I would target Portland, McChord, Fairchild and Travis. Those are all within your reach.
Good luck
03-01-2011, 02:08 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 272
Hawk,
Here are few additional things to think about.
Comments like "I just want to fly jets" and "I will let fate take me where ever" are probably not comments I would use around the units you visit.
Going to the guard or reserves with the intention of using them as a stepping stone to the airlines is probably not the right approach. I know we all think about it but I would not expect public statements until established in the unit. I know this is an overused statement but you are an officer first-pilot second. As I have gotten older I have looked more and more for this in the young people we hire. Truthfully, the units are better for it.
You will need another job! The military is broke and based on my most recent information, we are fixing to see the most painful draw down since WW2 over the next 2 to 15 years. The reserves and guard will be affected dramatically.
Do not tie both your careers to flying. Yes, I did it and many on here have but many of us have realized our mistakes and have established other sources of income. Use your degree, that is what you got it for. I know you are in perfect health now but many many things can take you out of both flying jobs. Head injury, diabetes, car accident, heart problem the list goes on.
I looked back at the last 4 UPT candidates we had:
Avg GPA: 3.68
PPL: Avg hours 75ish including student time
Major: All over the place
All but one had affiliation with the unit. All had strong letters of rec.
My daughter has flown for another unit for several years: hear were her stats:
GPA: 3.88
PPL: 41.3 hours
Major: Biology
letters of rec.
She read this post and said I was a little to blunt for her taste but admitted most of it was accurate. Also, she wanted me to mention that it is not hard to figure out who is who on these boards so don’t say anything you don’t want to come back and haunt you, because as Sirecks said, it is a small community we generally know everybody through affiliation.
Good Luck, keep the grades high. I know people will tell you they got in with a 2.0 GPA but they are very few and far between and I have not seen it in many many years. It is very competitive and coming in as an unknown we have very few things to judge you by.
Cheers
*
Here are few additional things to think about.
Comments like "I just want to fly jets" and "I will let fate take me where ever" are probably not comments I would use around the units you visit.
Going to the guard or reserves with the intention of using them as a stepping stone to the airlines is probably not the right approach. I know we all think about it but I would not expect public statements until established in the unit. I know this is an overused statement but you are an officer first-pilot second. As I have gotten older I have looked more and more for this in the young people we hire. Truthfully, the units are better for it.
You will need another job! The military is broke and based on my most recent information, we are fixing to see the most painful draw down since WW2 over the next 2 to 15 years. The reserves and guard will be affected dramatically.
Do not tie both your careers to flying. Yes, I did it and many on here have but many of us have realized our mistakes and have established other sources of income. Use your degree, that is what you got it for. I know you are in perfect health now but many many things can take you out of both flying jobs. Head injury, diabetes, car accident, heart problem the list goes on.
I looked back at the last 4 UPT candidates we had:
Avg GPA: 3.68
PPL: Avg hours 75ish including student time
Major: All over the place
All but one had affiliation with the unit. All had strong letters of rec.
My daughter has flown for another unit for several years: hear were her stats:
GPA: 3.88
PPL: 41.3 hours
Major: Biology
letters of rec.
She read this post and said I was a little to blunt for her taste but admitted most of it was accurate. Also, she wanted me to mention that it is not hard to figure out who is who on these boards so don’t say anything you don’t want to come back and haunt you, because as Sirecks said, it is a small community we generally know everybody through affiliation.
Good Luck, keep the grades high. I know people will tell you they got in with a 2.0 GPA but they are very few and far between and I have not seen it in many many years. It is very competitive and coming in as an unknown we have very few things to judge you by.
Cheers
*
03-01-2011, 03:02 PM
#28
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 55
Originally Posted by daldude
Hawk,
Here are few additional things to think about.
Comments like "I just want to fly jets" and "I will let fate take me where ever" are probably not comments I would use around the units you visit.
Going to the guard or reserves with the intention of using them as a stepping stone to the airlines is probably not the right approach. I know we all think about it but I would not expect public statements until established in the unit. I know this is an overused statement but you are an officer first-pilot second. As I have gotten older I have looked more and more for this in the young people we hire. Truthfully, the units are better for it.
You will need another job! The military is broke and based on my most recent information, we are fixing to see the most painful draw down since WW2 over the next 2 to 15 years. The reserves and guard will be affected dramatically.
Do not tie both your careers to flying. Yes, I did it and many on here have but many of us have realized our mistakes and have established other sources of income. Use your degree, that is what you got it for. I know you are in perfect health now but many many things can take you out of both flying jobs. Head injury, diabetes, car accident, heart problem the list goes on.
I looked back at the last 4 UPT candidates we had:
Avg GPA: 3.68
PPL: Avg hours 75ish including student time
Major: All over the place
All but one had affiliation with the unit. All had strong letters of rec.
My daughter has flown for another unit for several years: hear were her stats:
GPA: 3.88
PPL: 41.3 hours
Major: Biology
letters of rec.
She read this post and said I was a little to blunt for her taste but admitted most of it was accurate. Also, she wanted me to mention that it is not hard to figure out who is who on these boards so don’t say anything you don’t want to come back and haunt you, because as Sirecks said, it is a small community we generally know everybody through affiliation.
Good Luck, keep the grades high. I know people will tell you they got in with a 2.0 GPA but they are very few and far between and I have not seen it in many many years. It is very competitive and coming in as an unknown we have very few things to judge you by.
Cheers
*
Here are few additional things to think about.
Comments like "I just want to fly jets" and "I will let fate take me where ever" are probably not comments I would use around the units you visit.
Going to the guard or reserves with the intention of using them as a stepping stone to the airlines is probably not the right approach. I know we all think about it but I would not expect public statements until established in the unit. I know this is an overused statement but you are an officer first-pilot second. As I have gotten older I have looked more and more for this in the young people we hire. Truthfully, the units are better for it.
You will need another job! The military is broke and based on my most recent information, we are fixing to see the most painful draw down since WW2 over the next 2 to 15 years. The reserves and guard will be affected dramatically.
Do not tie both your careers to flying. Yes, I did it and many on here have but many of us have realized our mistakes and have established other sources of income. Use your degree, that is what you got it for. I know you are in perfect health now but many many things can take you out of both flying jobs. Head injury, diabetes, car accident, heart problem the list goes on.
I looked back at the last 4 UPT candidates we had:
Avg GPA: 3.68
PPL: Avg hours 75ish including student time
Major: All over the place
All but one had affiliation with the unit. All had strong letters of rec.
My daughter has flown for another unit for several years: hear were her stats:
GPA: 3.88
PPL: 41.3 hours
Major: Biology
letters of rec.
She read this post and said I was a little to blunt for her taste but admitted most of it was accurate. Also, she wanted me to mention that it is not hard to figure out who is who on these boards so don’t say anything you don’t want to come back and haunt you, because as Sirecks said, it is a small community we generally know everybody through affiliation.
Good Luck, keep the grades high. I know people will tell you they got in with a 2.0 GPA but they are very few and far between and I have not seen it in many many years. It is very competitive and coming in as an unknown we have very few things to judge you by.
Cheers
*
As for the mistakes you've realized "tying both jobs to flying". What were they? Sure I've only flown a few times in a little Cessna 152 and absolutely love it... so I can't say that flying 20+ days a month would be exhilirating. But I'd love to here your input on that.
Thanks again everybody.
03-01-2011, 04:06 PM
#29
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 55
I would also like it to be known that I AM NOT looking to go into the ANG as a pilot and use it as a "stepping stone" into a regional. I am looking to dedicate 120% of my time as a MILITARY PILOT. ANG first, everything else second. I have always wanted to serve our nation and what a better opportunity?
Flying for a regional would be something nice to do maybe ten years down the road of the national guard IF I feel the need to do so.
My goal is to get a UPT slot in my desired location (if this doesn't happen, I am willing to relocate), work my rear-end off, possibly get promoted, and serve there until my unit decides to kick me out. If I were offered a higher full-time position in the guard opposed to a regional job. I'd take the guard anyday. I want to invest time into something that will make me a better person and better society.
Thanks.
Flying for a regional would be something nice to do maybe ten years down the road of the national guard IF I feel the need to do so.
My goal is to get a UPT slot in my desired location (if this doesn't happen, I am willing to relocate), work my rear-end off, possibly get promoted, and serve there until my unit decides to kick me out. If I were offered a higher full-time position in the guard opposed to a regional job. I'd take the guard anyday. I want to invest time into something that will make me a better person and better society.
Thanks.
03-01-2011, 04:17 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 272
Why not to tie both jobs to flying:
Maj in unit fainted at kids soccer game: Grounded in unit and FAA medical pulled. Income reduced to airline disability.
Multiple members furloughed form airlines; so many people fighting for flying and pay everybody took additional cut in military
Lt Col in wing: in car accident; injured back and head; grounded in unit, FAA medical pulled reduced to airline disability for unknown period of time.
Capt in wing; diagnosed with diabetes, grounded for ever in unit and FAA medical pulled. No disability income reduce 90%
In all the cases above each of these individuals could have returned to work other than a flying job.
I average flying 18 to 20 days a month- Maybe not exhilarating but it's a pretty good way to make a living. As long as you have a backup to cover the day you cannot fly. For me it took being furloughed at Delta for half a decade relying on the guard to pay the bills when a silly eye problem grounded me, cutting my income to nearly nothing. The waiver took 14 months to process. All of this because the AF changed a test not because anything medically had changed with me. Very frustrating.
Once again good luck- I am sure you will do fine.
Maj in unit fainted at kids soccer game: Grounded in unit and FAA medical pulled. Income reduced to airline disability.
Multiple members furloughed form airlines; so many people fighting for flying and pay everybody took additional cut in military
Lt Col in wing: in car accident; injured back and head; grounded in unit, FAA medical pulled reduced to airline disability for unknown period of time.
Capt in wing; diagnosed with diabetes, grounded for ever in unit and FAA medical pulled. No disability income reduce 90%
In all the cases above each of these individuals could have returned to work other than a flying job.
I average flying 18 to 20 days a month- Maybe not exhilarating but it's a pretty good way to make a living. As long as you have a backup to cover the day you cannot fly. For me it took being furloughed at Delta for half a decade relying on the guard to pay the bills when a silly eye problem grounded me, cutting my income to nearly nothing. The waiver took 14 months to process. All of this because the AF changed a test not because anything medically had changed with me. Very frustrating.
Once again good luck- I am sure you will do fine.
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