CAFB 04-12

Good points. Most 781s with me as A-coded PIC would probably have me as the only IP and then a copilot, but I can't be 100% sure. In some cases a flight may have two IPs and I just drew the short straw as A-coded PIC. At some point, though, an employer should accept the word of a pilot and his logbook, no? I mean, how would a civilian pilot prove PIC time except for a logbook entry?

Starlifter

Like the 781, I have a copy of every journey log from every flight from my last 4 carriers now. They are in a BIG book logged by year, month and date. They each coinicide with my logbook entries. I do this just in case there are any questions!

Lifter

thurberm

I agree. In a perfect world, you should be trusted. But there will always be someone, somewhere--maybe with an axe to grind--who wants to know. And if that someone is an interview Captain at your dream job, well, it would suck to lose that opportunity just because of some paper you didn't keep, no?!

jeff122670

yeah..that was the point i was trying to make...did it not come across that way?

Actually, i was just following the FAR's....i didnt know they actually wanted the person signing for the A/C, but that makes sense.. thanks for the insight!

@Adler...wow, you seem uptight...those left hand turns and lack of A/C in the CAF making you tense???? LOL

Adlerdriver

Nope. Just some issues with the psycho b---- I was stupid enough to marry. A little bourbon probably didn't help, either. I think I kicked my cat that day too.
Sorry I was a richard.

ff615

Just out of curiosity, how do you log pic time in a multi-engine jet that you're not rated for? Even if your going by the FARs I'm fairly certain that you can't log pic time in a turbine aircrafty without a type-rating for that jet (regardsless of weight or if you have a multi-engine rating). I may be wrong but I'm kinda curious

donk74

To the OP yes some NAVs and NFOs do fly log times depends on aircraft and controls in the bird and that individuals ratings. As an NFO I logged time at controls as I had appropriate ratings to do so. I flew T-39 and had N-265 Type which is the saberliner type. I only logged time when I was sitting in the seat and I did not log PIC as I did not sign for the bird. I did log SIC and Mission Commander Time. The Feds will say you can log SIC time if per NATOPs it is a two pilot bird. I flew EA--6B and per NATOPs it is a 2 pilot aircraft and can go to 2 pilot mins... I however did NOT log my front seat time even though I had a Civ ME Inst Rating. I chose to log conservatively and I looked at it from a potential employers point of view.

Vito

Jeff,
There was an old urban legend about a Nav from Charleston (C-141's) who got hired at Delta soley based on his Nav time..evidently nobody noticed he had logged thousands of hours of Nav time. Someone recognized him some time later, asked a few questions and the "jig was up" he was fired and Delta had egg on their face. I had heard he flew for quite some time at Delta.

jeff122670

Good discussion!! There is a lot of WOM out there that as an F-15E WSO with a multiengine rating you can log PIC IAW FARs when you actually fly. That does get tricky in that now you have a total time (all of your flying time) and the time when you actually FLY the aircraft.

That is how I had it in my logbook (thankfully electronic logbook) and it was making it look messy (total time not = PIC time, etc, etc). After this discussion, I just deleted all military time completely and it looks a LOT cleaner!! It also avoids having to "explain" stuff in the logbook to a hiring company.

I will pass this along to other folks that i know who are interested in the airlines and have been logging PIC time as a WSO. I have been out of the jet for a while now sitting here at the Pgon, but I will forward along to other dudes out there.

I am assuming this must be company dependant because a good friend of mine flys for a company out of NC and they had no problem accepting his WSO "PIC" time. However this company does "other" things....perhaps it is a 121 issue?? any ideas?

@Adler...no problem!! We all have those days....imagine how i feel sitting here in this 5 sided nut house!!!!!

More Bacon

Sorry, gotta ask--how many backseaters have received airline interviews? How many have been laughed out of the room for logging PIC?

Can a nav log PIC? Of course not.